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I'm 20 years old and I feel the same way. Any tips for a young "old soul" software developer that has to work 20 years before he can retire (hopefully)? I've s

I'm 20 years old and I feel the same way. Any tips for a young "old soul" software developer that has to work 20 years before he can retire (hopefully)? I've spent half of my life programming and I know that this is my most valuable skill where I can make 10k+/month, but I don't feel any excitement about 90% of the stuff anymore so it's hard to continue. My current plan is to increase my passive income and trading. I love programming, but I'm feeling burned out (I'm doing professional software dev for 3 years now and currently run an agency).

aswanson 8y ago
Live below your means and put as much as possible into index funds and maybe a few stocks you think will outperform. You'll be set before you know it at that income level.
- mockingbirdy 8y ago
  Can you do a real calculation? I can save up 2k€/month because I want to work part-time (1-2 weeks a month) and will only make 6.5k€/month pre-tax (3.5k€ after taxes). Unfortunately we have heavy taxing here in Germany (42% income tax). I need to invest a million to make 70k€/year pre-tax (premise: 7% ROI). This doesn't sound remotely possible - saving up 25-30k€/year is not going to cut it for significant gains in the markets. I can increase my income by working full-time, but if I know that I have to do it for many years I get demotivated. - - - Maybe it's a mistake that I'm located in Germany, the taxing makes it impossible for me to save up enough money although I'm in the top 10-20% of incomes. Due to progressive taxing, going from 100k€ to 120k€/year increases my net income from 55k€ (this is nearly half of the 100k) to 64k€. It feels like that's a bit too much because people making a million also pay 42% income tax (most of them pay 25% because capital gains are taxed differently). Having money is rewarded more than working, so I'm getting demotivated a bit by knowing that most of the money I make will be eaten by progressive taxes, anyways. edit: There's a way to pay around 20-25% of taxes - having a family where one person works with two kids (two working parents is not encouraged, however - very subtle nudging). It's like we've ingrained our values into our tax system. For me as a 20y/o, this doesn't help and I'm not gonna marry somebody to save some taxes.
  - varjag 8y ago
    Stock gains are taxed with capital gain tax, which is typically a lot lower than income tax. Here in Norway CGT is at 28%, an unattainably low figure for income tax on professional salary. You can also tax deduct losses.
    - mockingbirdy 8y ago
      I understand that the government tries to incentivize people to invest, but it's also very clear who profits most from such regulations. In a market where there's a lot of capital which already chases yields (ECB already keeps the interest low). It's always Keynes vs. Friedman (and a mix of both), but I don't like this de-regulated state. We already have big problems with inequality. What do you think about this?
      - varjag 8y ago
        I fail to see a solution to this that won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Increasing CGT will kill off small business scene effectively, as it's very often one-two small owners with very modest compensation via the dividend.
xirdstl 8y ago
It's definitely a hard profession to walk away from when you have the skills, because it's much more lucrative than most alternatives. Find a gig which is not too stressful (generally 40 hours/week). Likely candidates are in less sexy industries that won't make the HN front page. Save all you can, and enjoy your life outside of work. If you like programming and technology, even more "boring" jobs will often enough provide challenge to keep things interesting. If not, you can dabble outside of work without burning out if you're only putting in 40/week. EDIT: typo
- mockingbirdy 8y ago
  I've always decided against a normal 9-to-5 job because it feels like a waste of time and like I'm missing a purpose. I think I'll continue to work like you've described for half a year and save up my whole income and invest it properly. I already have a passive income of 1.5-1.9k€/month pre-tax, I'll invest the 20-30k€ that I'll save up in the next months to get to 3.5-5k€/month of passive income. It's not 10k/month, but I feel like I'm doing myself a disservice if I "enjoy my life outside work". Do you have the fear of regretting a 9-to-5 life? I've always wanted to be free so a 40h-week doing something I don't really enjoy sounds like a nightmare to me.
  - xirdstl 8y ago
    Sounds like a good plan. Good luck to you!
    - mockingbirdy 8y ago
      I hope that it works out before the sh*t hits the fan. I guess 2019 will be the year of the next crash (Italy, college crisis, fiscal crisis, DAX is falling, Brexit, Trump policies that basically just deregulate and only bring short-term gains but ultimately harm the society long-term, real estate bubble here in Germany). Unfortunately, most of my passive income is coupled with consumer spending. I guess it will stop working when I need it most and investing another 20-30k€ won't bring me far (I'll try to invest when the market is low, nevertheless). Hope I'm wrong with my shallow market analysis. Hope it works out for all of you, too! edit: I hate crash predictions as the next guy because they're almost always wrong. But lately I'm having a hard time ignoring the signs.

aswanson 8y ago

Live below your means and put as much as possible into index funds and maybe a few stocks you think will outperform. You'll be set before you know it at that income level.

mockingbirdy 8y ago
Can you do a real calculation? I can save up 2k€/month because I want to work part-time (1-2 weeks a month) and will only make 6.5k€/month pre-tax (3.5k€ after taxes). Unfortunately we have heavy taxing here in Germany (42% income tax). I need to invest a million to make 70k€/year pre-tax (premise: 7% ROI). This doesn't sound remotely possible - saving up 25-30k€/year is not going to cut it for significant gains in the markets. I can increase my income by working full-time, but if I know that I have to do it for many years I get demotivated. - - - Maybe it's a mistake that I'm located in Germany, the taxing makes it impossible for me to save up enough money although I'm in the top 10-20% of incomes. Due to progressive taxing, going from 100k€ to 120k€/year increases my net income from 55k€ (this is nearly half of the 100k) to 64k€. It feels like that's a bit too much because people making a million also pay 42% income tax (most of them pay 25% because capital gains are taxed differently). Having money is rewarded more than working, so I'm getting demotivated a bit by knowing that most of the money I make will be eaten by progressive taxes, anyways. edit: There's a way to pay around 20-25% of taxes - having a family where one person works with two kids (two working parents is not encouraged, however - very subtle nudging). It's like we've ingrained our values into our tax system. For me as a 20y/o, this doesn't help and I'm not gonna marry somebody to save some taxes.
- varjag 8y ago
  Stock gains are taxed with capital gain tax, which is typically a lot lower than income tax. Here in Norway CGT is at 28%, an unattainably low figure for income tax on professional salary. You can also tax deduct losses.
  - mockingbirdy 8y ago
    I understand that the government tries to incentivize people to invest, but it's also very clear who profits most from such regulations. In a market where there's a lot of capital which already chases yields (ECB already keeps the interest low). It's always Keynes vs. Friedman (and a mix of both), but I don't like this de-regulated state. We already have big problems with inequality. What do you think about this?
    - varjag 8y ago
      I fail to see a solution to this that won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Increasing CGT will kill off small business scene effectively, as it's very often one-two small owners with very modest compensation via the dividend.

xirdstl 8y ago

It's definitely a hard profession to walk away from when you have the skills, because it's much more lucrative than most alternatives. Find a gig which is not too stressful (generally 40 hours/week). Likely candidates are in less sexy industries that won't make the HN front page. Save all you can, and enjoy your life outside of work. If you like programming and technology, even more "boring" jobs will often enough provide challenge to keep things interesting. If not, you can dabble outside of work without burning out if you're only putting in 40/week. EDIT: typo

mockingbirdy 8y ago
I've always decided against a normal 9-to-5 job because it feels like a waste of time and like I'm missing a purpose. I think I'll continue to work like you've described for half a year and save up my whole income and invest it properly. I already have a passive income of 1.5-1.9k€/month pre-tax, I'll invest the 20-30k€ that I'll save up in the next months to get to 3.5-5k€/month of passive income. It's not 10k/month, but I feel like I'm doing myself a disservice if I "enjoy my life outside work". Do you have the fear of regretting a 9-to-5 life? I've always wanted to be free so a 40h-week doing something I don't really enjoy sounds like a nightmare to me.
- xirdstl 8y ago
  Sounds like a good plan. Good luck to you!
  - mockingbirdy 8y ago
    I hope that it works out before the sh*t hits the fan. I guess 2019 will be the year of the next crash (Italy, college crisis, fiscal crisis, DAX is falling, Brexit, Trump policies that basically just deregulate and only bring short-term gains but ultimately harm the society long-term, real estate bubble here in Germany). Unfortunately, most of my passive income is coupled with consumer spending. I guess it will stop working when I need it most and investing another 20-30k€ won't bring me far (I'll try to invest when the market is low, nevertheless). Hope I'm wrong with my shallow market analysis. Hope it works out for all of you, too! edit: I hate crash predictions as the next guy because they're almost always wrong. But lately I'm having a hard time ignoring the signs.