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I don't think anyone in their right minds believes that fighting CC is going to be a profitable venture at all. The point is it will take co-operation and inves

I don't think anyone in their right minds believes that fighting CC is going to be a profitable venture at all. The point is it will take co-operation and investment by governments worldwide. It's also important to note that the geological formations necessary for sequestering CO2 are a lot more common than those required to _potentially_ be stores of crude. In addition to all this, countries around the world will have to be willing to take an economic hit, something I'm worried the biggest polluters won't do (China/India in particular). This makes me wonder if it is futile for developed nations to be stifling their own economies with carbon taxes because China, India, and Africa don't keep up. In any case, we probably will be far off the IPCC recommendations and will have to resort to geoengineering.

cbhl 8y ago
I recommend reading Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About the World--and Why Things Are Better Than You Think, by the late Hans Rosling and his kids. In particular, Chapter Five, "The Size Instinct" can help you reframe the way you look at this fear. When looking at CO2 emissions for China and India, you have to look at their emissions on a per-capita basis. People in cities in China routinely wear face masks because of the pollution there -- they're very acutely aware of the problem. It would sadden me if "oh but China won't stop polluting" strawman arguments stop us from putting an effort into trying to find a solution.
dm3730 8y ago
> China/India in particular What data are you basing that on? We and our Arab client states are the biggest polluters by far, on a per capita basis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... CO2 emissions by country name (only fossil fuels and cement manufacture, metric tons per capita China 7.6 India 1.6 United States 16.4 Qatar 40.5 Saudi Arabia 19.2
- biglenny 8y ago
  Because most CO2 emissions are from industry, not humans, per capita statistics mean very little (especially since these industries ship their products globally). Per capita statistics are championed by industry because they shift blame to citizens and paint the false picture that citizens are entirely responsible for the nation's output. This means it is more effective to use a metric like CO2 emitted per $1000 GDP because it reflects how polluting industry is in each country. See link attached and sort. It is also important to remember China and India (especially) are far from industrializing, and Western nations' emissions are dropping (they peaked 10-15 yrs ago). In reality, some combination of CO2/capita and CO2/$1000GDP is the most effective for determining how polluting a country is. Environmental policy is dictated at a national level. And this is why I put pressure on the Chinese state (again, NOT the people). A bigger portion of their emissions are caused by industry than in most countries). The Chinese state and only the Chinese state has the ability to reduce industrial emissions in their country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

cbhl 8y ago

I recommend reading Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About the World--and Why Things Are Better Than You Think, by the late Hans Rosling and his kids. In particular, Chapter Five, "The Size Instinct" can help you reframe the way you look at this fear. When looking at CO2 emissions for China and India, you have to look at their emissions on a per-capita basis. People in cities in China routinely wear face masks because of the pollution there -- they're very acutely aware of the problem. It would sadden me if "oh but China won't stop polluting" strawman arguments stop us from putting an effort into trying to find a solution.

dm3730 8y ago

> China/India in particular What data are you basing that on? We and our Arab client states are the biggest polluters by far, on a per capita basis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... CO2 emissions by country name (only fossil fuels and cement manufacture, metric tons per capita China 7.6 India 1.6 United States 16.4 Qatar 40.5 Saudi Arabia 19.2

biglenny 8y ago
Because most CO2 emissions are from industry, not humans, per capita statistics mean very little (especially since these industries ship their products globally). Per capita statistics are championed by industry because they shift blame to citizens and paint the false picture that citizens are entirely responsible for the nation's output. This means it is more effective to use a metric like CO2 emitted per $1000 GDP because it reflects how polluting industry is in each country. See link attached and sort. It is also important to remember China and India (especially) are far from industrializing, and Western nations' emissions are dropping (they peaked 10-15 yrs ago). In reality, some combination of CO2/capita and CO2/$1000GDP is the most effective for determining how polluting a country is. Environmental policy is dictated at a national level. And this is why I put pressure on the Chinese state (again, NOT the people). A bigger portion of their emissions are caused by industry than in most countries). The Chinese state and only the Chinese state has the ability to reduce industrial emissions in their country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...