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> In effect, every Lyft vehicle in operation today, with a smartphone on the dashboard, could be commandeered to become a “camera” watching, surveying and mappi

by lolc 8y ago

> In effect, every Lyft vehicle in operation today, with a smartphone on the dashboard, could be commandeered to become a “camera” watching, surveying and mapping the roads that those cars drive on, and how humans behave on them, using that to help Lyft’s autonomous vehicle (AV) platform learn more about driving overall. Another instance of the "more data is better" fallacy. Humans can drive cars safely after only fifteen years of intermittent sensory input. Lyft could collect that "data" within just one year employing ten collectors. That still doesn't give you brains. Is Techcrunch an outlet for PR pieces? I'm asking because that article reads like one of those.

woah 8y ago
Yes
soared 8y ago
How is having recorded video of actual roads not valuable data? You're assuming the only option is training self driving cars on it. They might be training something totally separate to recognize signs, or see damaged roads, how quickly pedestrians react at different times of day, etc. Very narrow view point for you to take.
- lolc 8y ago
  I agree that having detailed maps is an advantage. But they only make you a better driver in the places where they are correct. As such you can't rely on them to learn to drive, because you must be able to adapt to changes. Driving is not about the best case, but about the worst case. Using uncalibrated and random positioned phone cameras to learn about driving a car that has better sensory equipment seems backwards to me. But point taken, the article says "learn more about driving overall." So that could be anything.
  - blattimwind 8y ago
    To reiterate, you cannot, ever drive based on any map, regardless of how many smartphones collected that map's data. You might use a map for navigation, but even then you'll have to deal with closed roads or changed traffic flow that isn't yet on the map. You cannot use maps for driving.
    - lolc 8y ago
      Well that's my sentiment too. But the article is wishy washy on the use of the collected data. Having local knowledge can make you a better driver after all.
darawk 8y ago
> Another instance of the "more data is better" fallacy. More data is better. The fact that humans have better algorithms that need less data does absolutely nothing to negate this.
- skywhopper 8y ago
  Depends on whether it’s the right data, or meaningful data. The idea that Lyft needs this acquisition in order to implement video capture from its drivers’ cell phones is laughable so something else is going on with this acquisition. But to your point, the assumption that this is even a problem of “not enough data” is questionable at this point. How to turn that data into results is something no one has come close to figuring out yet.
  - darawk 8y ago
    > Depends on whether it’s the right data, or meaningful data. Street level mapping data isn't relevant or meaningful? Basically every company working on this problem seems to pretty strongly disagree with you. > But to your point, the assumption that this is even a problem of “not enough data” is questionable at this point. How to turn that data into results is something no one has come close to figuring out yet. This is trivially false. Given infinite data, all possible situations would be represented in the data, and the solutions applied in those situations could be copied exactly, something that existing algorithms are completely capable of doing.
    - mijamo 8y ago
      Given infinote fata, infine storage and infinite computing you would be right. In practice it means you are wrong. Feeding more data does not necessarily help given a finite amount of computing power.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
      >> This is trivially false. Given infinite data, all possible situations would be represented in the data, and the solutions applied in those situations could be copied exactly, something that existing algorithms are completely capable of doing. In principle. In practice, you'd need infinite time and infinite storage. Btw, do you have to add stuff like "This is trivially false" to your comments? It doesn't make your comments sound more right, only less well considered.

by lolc 8y ago

woah 8y ago

Yes

soared 8y ago

How is having recorded video of actual roads not valuable data? You're assuming the only option is training self driving cars on it. They might be training something totally separate to recognize signs, or see damaged roads, how quickly pedestrians react at different times of day, etc. Very narrow view point for you to take.

lolc 8y ago
I agree that having detailed maps is an advantage. But they only make you a better driver in the places where they are correct. As such you can't rely on them to learn to drive, because you must be able to adapt to changes. Driving is not about the best case, but about the worst case. Using uncalibrated and random positioned phone cameras to learn about driving a car that has better sensory equipment seems backwards to me. But point taken, the article says "learn more about driving overall." So that could be anything.
- blattimwind 8y ago
  To reiterate, you cannot, ever drive based on any map, regardless of how many smartphones collected that map's data. You might use a map for navigation, but even then you'll have to deal with closed roads or changed traffic flow that isn't yet on the map. You cannot use maps for driving.
  - lolc 8y ago
    Well that's my sentiment too. But the article is wishy washy on the use of the collected data. Having local knowledge can make you a better driver after all.

darawk 8y ago

> Another instance of the "more data is better" fallacy. More data is better. The fact that humans have better algorithms that need less data does absolutely nothing to negate this.

skywhopper 8y ago
Depends on whether it’s the right data, or meaningful data. The idea that Lyft needs this acquisition in order to implement video capture from its drivers’ cell phones is laughable so something else is going on with this acquisition. But to your point, the assumption that this is even a problem of “not enough data” is questionable at this point. How to turn that data into results is something no one has come close to figuring out yet.
- darawk 8y ago
  > Depends on whether it’s the right data, or meaningful data. Street level mapping data isn't relevant or meaningful? Basically every company working on this problem seems to pretty strongly disagree with you. > But to your point, the assumption that this is even a problem of “not enough data” is questionable at this point. How to turn that data into results is something no one has come close to figuring out yet. This is trivially false. Given infinite data, all possible situations would be represented in the data, and the solutions applied in those situations could be copied exactly, something that existing algorithms are completely capable of doing.
  - mijamo 8y ago
    Given infinote fata, infine storage and infinite computing you would be right. In practice it means you are wrong. Feeding more data does not necessarily help given a finite amount of computing power.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
    >> This is trivially false. Given infinite data, all possible situations would be represented in the data, and the solutions applied in those situations could be copied exactly, something that existing algorithms are completely capable of doing. In principle. In practice, you'd need infinite time and infinite storage. Btw, do you have to add stuff like "This is trivially false" to your comments? It doesn't make your comments sound more right, only less well considered.