4 ms·

I remember a "MacGuffin" not to be some preliminary objective in a plot, but rather a meaningless, exchangeable objective that nonetheless is central to the plo

I remember a "MacGuffin" not to be some preliminary objective in a plot, but rather a meaningless, exchangeable objective that nonetheless is central to the plot. The Indiana Jones films serve well as examples: the specific artefacts he's trying to recover could be replaced with any other valuable item without meaningfully affecting the story. (But there's the distinct possibility that I'm wrong, or that I'm splitting hairs, or just generally missing the point of analogies)

arbitrage 8y ago
You're not wrong, but that's the fun of neologisms. Their meanings don't always stay anchored. I think to maintain the significance of the term, it should be limited only, as you point out, to only objects of meaningless, exchangeable value. Kinda drives home the point that the MacGuffin is not part of the plot in any meaningful way, it just serves as a motivation to get things moving.
- ggambetta 8y ago
  I think the problem is not so much using McGuffin in the neologism, giving Canary McGuffin a specific and well-defined meaning (which I have no problem with), but the incorrect description of the McGuffin as a screenwriting device given in the article.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    Is the problem that this trope is attributed to screenwriting rather than writing in general? Or is there some other definition of MacGuffin floating around? The Reference [0] seems to agree with TFA. Personally, I find this neologism highly satisfying. It is a novel combination of two precise idioms that when combined have the precise (although not necessarily obvious) meaning ascribed to the term by its creator. Many neologisms are strained at their creation, and only become idiomatically comfortable after years of use. This seems right, right now. Kudos to Rachel by the Bay! [0] https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacGuffin https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacGuffin
ggambetta 8y ago
No, you're correct. I was going to point this out before I saw your comment. The example I had in mind was the Rabbit's Foot in Mission:Impossible III. Perfect example of McGuffin: it motivates the entire plot of the movie, but at no point it becomes clear what it is (other than Simon Pegg speculating about it). It's in a canister, the bad guys want it, and Tom Cruise has to stop them from getting it.
- Angostura 8y ago
  The suitcase in Pulp Fiction is perhaps the greatest example. You never know what it is in it.
  - erulabs 8y ago
    "Is that what I think it is?" is such a brilliant MacGuffin line
PeterisP 8y ago
Things like "an user account in the system which you need to even start doing some work there" seem to fit your MacGuffin definition quite well. It's just an arbitrary trifle, but the meaning of it (and the meaning of the "worker" not having even made that user account) is quite central to the "plot".
- masswerk 8y ago
  A "MacGuffin" is about the objective, about what gets the technical side of the story (which is about an emotional trajectory) going. Imagine a screen writer suggesting a story, "There is this cunning agent and this girl and they are trapped in an air bubble below the ice in Antarctica. First they are cats and dogs, but then they bond over some obstacles and fall in love." Producer, "And why are they there, in the first place?" "Um, stuff, three-letter-agencies, a microfilm perhaps…" (That's your MacGuffin.) So a MacGuffin for a software project may be like: "Boss, I see the specs, but what is this service for?" – "Stuff" – "???" – "Now, see, there's this little country, I think it's called Zamunda, and the prince really wants this, and, since he happens to know the nice of our CEO, we could make some points, if we get this right. Don't ask!" (Note: In the original form of the joke quoted by Hitchcock and as retold by Truffaut, the MacGuffin is actually a magical tool for hunting lions in Scotland, the real joke being about it remaining undisclosed. However, Hitchcock used it in terms of a story driving objective that just serves the purpose of an external motivation, a black box that could be as well empty as far as we know.)
acjohnson55 8y ago
Usually it's an object whose details aren't even bothered to be explained. All you know is that people want it, and their conflict drives the story. I can't remember Indiana Jones that well, but I suspect we know too much about why the artifacts are desirable for them to be classic MacGuffins.

arbitrage 8y ago

You're not wrong, but that's the fun of neologisms. Their meanings don't always stay anchored. I think to maintain the significance of the term, it should be limited only, as you point out, to only objects of meaningless, exchangeable value. Kinda drives home the point that the MacGuffin is not part of the plot in any meaningful way, it just serves as a motivation to get things moving.

ggambetta 8y ago
I think the problem is not so much using McGuffin in the neologism, giving Canary McGuffin a specific and well-defined meaning (which I have no problem with), but the incorrect description of the McGuffin as a screenwriting device given in the article.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  Is the problem that this trope is attributed to screenwriting rather than writing in general? Or is there some other definition of MacGuffin floating around? The Reference [0] seems to agree with TFA. Personally, I find this neologism highly satisfying. It is a novel combination of two precise idioms that when combined have the precise (although not necessarily obvious) meaning ascribed to the term by its creator. Many neologisms are strained at their creation, and only become idiomatically comfortable after years of use. This seems right, right now. Kudos to Rachel by the Bay! [0] https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacGuffin https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacGuffin

ggambetta 8y ago

No, you're correct. I was going to point this out before I saw your comment. The example I had in mind was the Rabbit's Foot in Mission:Impossible III. Perfect example of McGuffin: it motivates the entire plot of the movie, but at no point it becomes clear what it is (other than Simon Pegg speculating about it). It's in a canister, the bad guys want it, and Tom Cruise has to stop them from getting it.

Angostura 8y ago
The suitcase in Pulp Fiction is perhaps the greatest example. You never know what it is in it.
- erulabs 8y ago
  "Is that what I think it is?" is such a brilliant MacGuffin line

PeterisP 8y ago

Things like "an user account in the system which you need to even start doing some work there" seem to fit your MacGuffin definition quite well. It's just an arbitrary trifle, but the meaning of it (and the meaning of the "worker" not having even made that user account) is quite central to the "plot".

masswerk 8y ago
A "MacGuffin" is about the objective, about what gets the technical side of the story (which is about an emotional trajectory) going. Imagine a screen writer suggesting a story, "There is this cunning agent and this girl and they are trapped in an air bubble below the ice in Antarctica. First they are cats and dogs, but then they bond over some obstacles and fall in love." Producer, "And why are they there, in the first place?" "Um, stuff, three-letter-agencies, a microfilm perhaps…" (That's your MacGuffin.) So a MacGuffin for a software project may be like: "Boss, I see the specs, but what is this service for?" – "Stuff" – "???" – "Now, see, there's this little country, I think it's called Zamunda, and the prince really wants this, and, since he happens to know the nice of our CEO, we could make some points, if we get this right. Don't ask!" (Note: In the original form of the joke quoted by Hitchcock and as retold by Truffaut, the MacGuffin is actually a magical tool for hunting lions in Scotland, the real joke being about it remaining undisclosed. However, Hitchcock used it in terms of a story driving objective that just serves the purpose of an external motivation, a black box that could be as well empty as far as we know.)

acjohnson55 8y ago

Usually it's an object whose details aren't even bothered to be explained. All you know is that people want it, and their conflict drives the story. I can't remember Indiana Jones that well, but I suspect we know too much about why the artifacts are desirable for them to be classic MacGuffins.