4 ms·

When I was 40, I'd get a job offer from about 40% of the interviews I did. Now that I'm pushing 50, it's about 10%. I blame a number of things: * The biggest

When I was 40, I'd get a job offer from about 40% of the interviews I did. Now that I'm pushing 50, it's about 10%. I blame a number of things: * The biggest one is salary. I'm just not willing to work for what I worked for when I was 40. * I haven't kept up with the latest technology as much as I should have. * I'm a bit more risk averse. For instance, when I was 35, I moved to another state for a job. But a lot of it is just plain ageism. I did an interview last Friday, and when I walked in, the company was full of twenty-somethings. I saw the look on the recruiter's face, when he did the math and realized I was way older than he'd assumed. He just looked horrified.

aswanson 8y ago
I've seen it firsthand, and I'm far outside the valley. Experienced, well educated older applicants dismissed by far younger managers giving vague reasoning e.g. "I just didnt see the passion...the energy wasnt there....". Its really sad.
- skybrian 8y ago
  I don't know about this case, but as you get older and more experienced/cynical, enthusiasm for most of the available programming jobs does become a limited resource, at least for some of us. It's a good idea to try for early retirement if you can.
  - xirdstl 8y ago
    That's exactly how I feel as well (in my late 30s). After awhile, the passion does wane. Cynically, why would I have passion to work long hours for another startup who is going to "change the world" through marketing ad-tech, possibly failing and leaving me without a paycheck? I've gotten to a position where I'm doing just part-time now, ultimately looking toward early retirement (or, working on whatever I want).
    - mockingbirdy 8y ago
      I'm 20 years old and I feel the same way. Any tips for a young "old soul" software developer that has to work 20 years before he can retire (hopefully)? I've spent half of my life programming and I know that this is my most valuable skill where I can make 10k+/month, but I don't feel any excitement about 90% of the stuff anymore so it's hard to continue. My current plan is to increase my passive income and trading. I love programming, but I'm feeling burned out (I'm doing professional software dev for 3 years now and currently run an agency).
      - aswanson 8y ago
        Live below your means and put as much as possible into index funds and maybe a few stocks you think will outperform. You'll be set before you know it at that income level.
        mockingbirdy 8y ago
        Can you do a real calculation? I can save up 2k€/month because I want to work part-time (1-2 weeks a month) and will only make 6.5k€/month pre-tax (3.5k€ after taxes). Unfortunately we have heavy taxing here in Germany (42% income tax). I need to invest a million to make 70k€/year pre-tax (premise: 7% ROI). This doesn't sound remotely possible - saving up 25-30k€/year is not going to cut it for significant gains in the markets. I can increase my income by working full-time, but if I know that I have to do it for many years I get demotivated. - - - Maybe it's a mistake that I'm located in Germany, the taxing makes it impossible for me to save up enough money although I'm in the top 10-20% of incomes. Due to progressive taxing, going from 100k€ to 120k€/year increases my net income from 55k€ (this is nearly half of the 100k) to 64k€. It feels like that's a bit too much because people making a million also pay 42% income tax (most of them pay 25% because capital gains are taxed differently). Having money is rewarded more than working, so I'm getting demotivated a bit by knowing that most of the money I make will be eaten by progressive taxes, anyways. edit: There's a way to pay around 20-25% of taxes - having a family where one person works with two kids (two working parents is not encouraged, however - very subtle nudging). It's like we've ingrained our values into our tax system. For me as a 20y/o, this doesn't help and I'm not gonna marry somebody to save some taxes.
war1025 8y ago
I always wonder how much of these stories comes down to people not being willing to do jobs that are "beneath" them. Sure he applied to hundreds of jobs, but what was the range of things he applied to? Not being able to find a job making / doing what you used to is far different from actually being unemployable.
- not_real_acct 8y ago
  It's a catch-22. Here's an example: Right now, my earning are in the top 5% of my specialization. Realistically, I'm probably overpaid by about 25%. I'm currently employed and I've gone on a bunch of interviews. I get hit with two things: 1) I haven't found a single employer who will even come close to what I currently make. I will take a pay cut of at least 10-15%, no matter where I go. 2) A lot of employers want me to take an even bigger hit. Which I'm OK with! But then they get suspicious, wondering "what if we hire him and he just leaves as soon as he finds someone that pays better?" I've actually considered lying about how much I make, but that seems a bit stupid. As I see it, they're getting me at a discount, as they see it, I'm a liability. It's a p.i.t.a.
  - xirdstl 8y ago
    Can you give them a target salary instead of what you make now? Do they need to know what you make?
  - woah 8y ago
    It’s illegal to ask about prior salary in California, and I would argue it’s a questionable tactic elsewhere.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  Not sure I understand what you are saying, but it sounds like you’re suggesting people should be open to taking on roles that they see as beneath them (roles that are more and more junior) as they age. This is the exact opposite of the expectation in most other professions, where as you gain experience, better and better more senior opportunities open up.
marktangotango 8y ago
You dodged the bullet, I cringe at the garbage I’ve seen those teams create.

aswanson 8y ago

I've seen it firsthand, and I'm far outside the valley. Experienced, well educated older applicants dismissed by far younger managers giving vague reasoning e.g. "I just didnt see the passion...the energy wasnt there....". Its really sad.

skybrian 8y ago
I don't know about this case, but as you get older and more experienced/cynical, enthusiasm for most of the available programming jobs does become a limited resource, at least for some of us. It's a good idea to try for early retirement if you can.
- xirdstl 8y ago
  That's exactly how I feel as well (in my late 30s). After awhile, the passion does wane. Cynically, why would I have passion to work long hours for another startup who is going to "change the world" through marketing ad-tech, possibly failing and leaving me without a paycheck? I've gotten to a position where I'm doing just part-time now, ultimately looking toward early retirement (or, working on whatever I want).
  - mockingbirdy 8y ago
    I'm 20 years old and I feel the same way. Any tips for a young "old soul" software developer that has to work 20 years before he can retire (hopefully)? I've spent half of my life programming and I know that this is my most valuable skill where I can make 10k+/month, but I don't feel any excitement about 90% of the stuff anymore so it's hard to continue. My current plan is to increase my passive income and trading. I love programming, but I'm feeling burned out (I'm doing professional software dev for 3 years now and currently run an agency).
    - aswanson 8y ago
      Live below your means and put as much as possible into index funds and maybe a few stocks you think will outperform. You'll be set before you know it at that income level.
      - mockingbirdy 8y ago
        Can you do a real calculation? I can save up 2k€/month because I want to work part-time (1-2 weeks a month) and will only make 6.5k€/month pre-tax (3.5k€ after taxes). Unfortunately we have heavy taxing here in Germany (42% income tax). I need to invest a million to make 70k€/year pre-tax (premise: 7% ROI). This doesn't sound remotely possible - saving up 25-30k€/year is not going to cut it for significant gains in the markets. I can increase my income by working full-time, but if I know that I have to do it for many years I get demotivated. - - - Maybe it's a mistake that I'm located in Germany, the taxing makes it impossible for me to save up enough money although I'm in the top 10-20% of incomes. Due to progressive taxing, going from 100k€ to 120k€/year increases my net income from 55k€ (this is nearly half of the 100k) to 64k€. It feels like that's a bit too much because people making a million also pay 42% income tax (most of them pay 25% because capital gains are taxed differently). Having money is rewarded more than working, so I'm getting demotivated a bit by knowing that most of the money I make will be eaten by progressive taxes, anyways. edit: There's a way to pay around 20-25% of taxes - having a family where one person works with two kids (two working parents is not encouraged, however - very subtle nudging). It's like we've ingrained our values into our tax system. For me as a 20y/o, this doesn't help and I'm not gonna marry somebody to save some taxes.

war1025 8y ago

I always wonder how much of these stories comes down to people not being willing to do jobs that are "beneath" them. Sure he applied to hundreds of jobs, but what was the range of things he applied to? Not being able to find a job making / doing what you used to is far different from actually being unemployable.

not_real_acct 8y ago
It's a catch-22. Here's an example: Right now, my earning are in the top 5% of my specialization. Realistically, I'm probably overpaid by about 25%. I'm currently employed and I've gone on a bunch of interviews. I get hit with two things: 1) I haven't found a single employer who will even come close to what I currently make. I will take a pay cut of at least 10-15%, no matter where I go. 2) A lot of employers want me to take an even bigger hit. Which I'm OK with! But then they get suspicious, wondering "what if we hire him and he just leaves as soon as he finds someone that pays better?" I've actually considered lying about how much I make, but that seems a bit stupid. As I see it, they're getting me at a discount, as they see it, I'm a liability. It's a p.i.t.a.
- xirdstl 8y ago
  Can you give them a target salary instead of what you make now? Do they need to know what you make?
- woah 8y ago
  It’s illegal to ask about prior salary in California, and I would argue it’s a questionable tactic elsewhere.
ryandrake 8y ago
Not sure I understand what you are saying, but it sounds like you’re suggesting people should be open to taking on roles that they see as beneath them (roles that are more and more junior) as they age. This is the exact opposite of the expectation in most other professions, where as you gain experience, better and better more senior opportunities open up.

marktangotango 8y ago

You dodged the bullet, I cringe at the garbage I’ve seen those teams create.