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Same drawback applies to Bitcoin. Send BTC from Coinbase to a blacklisted entity and see how quickly CB, Gemini, etc. shut down your accounts. Then you’re left

by hudon 8y ago

Same drawback applies to Bitcoin. Send BTC from Coinbase to a blacklisted entity and see how quickly CB, Gemini, etc. shut down your accounts. Then you’re left with your local client but you can’t trade anywhere... and speculation is crypto’s only use case today.

lawn 8y ago
> but you can’t trade anywhere Just trade on all the other less regulated exchanges. Or localbitcoin. Or, you know, buy stuff. > and speculation is crypto’s only use case today. Or you buy stuff... For example: * Webhallen (huge Swedish online shop) * scan.co.uk (uk based computer online shop) * purse.io (buy stuff from amazon) * fastmail (emails) * VPN/VPS/domains from various providers * darknetmarkets
- skybrian 8y ago
  If they don't use the blacklist, will they get added to the blacklist? (Is it viral?)
  - goodside 8y ago
    Yes. This is what Chainalysis does, among many other things — track tainted coins that people are intentionally obscuring the origin of.
- hudon 8y ago
  Why the hell would I buy Bitcoin to buy stuff on Amazon through a proxy site that sells my BTC for me instead of just... buying on Amazon like a normal person? BTC will be way slower and more expensive than just using my credit card... Plus Visa will refund me in the case of fraud. Like I side, speculation is the only thing you buy BTC for (moon!!!111), and the exchanges will prevent you from doing this if you are related to blacklisted accounts.
  - lawn 8y ago
    > Why the hell would I buy Bitcoin to buy stuff on Amazon through a proxy site Because they give discounts up to 15%. I'm sorry it doesn't fit your narrative but there are reasons to prefer cryptocurrencies.
    - briatx 8y ago
      Like a lot of the crypto currency space purse.io is shady and likely promoting thinly veiled money laundering. Ask yourself if the discount is worth the risk of experiences like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4zczow/my_experience_with_purseio/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4zczow/my_experien...
    - hudon 8y ago
      15% sounds about right to offset the fraud risk, volatility risk, exchange fees, network fees, network congestion, transfer delays, fork risk, catastrophic bugs, and theft risk :) We all have narratives, buddy. Mine just doesn't hinge on gambling and crypto-anarchic utopia.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - pjc50 8y ago
      Why are they giving such a big discount? The transaction fees are nowhere near that high. Could it be that they're reselling fraudulent giftcards?
  - antidesitter 8y ago
    > Like I side, speculation is the only thing you buy BTC for You've ignored the rest of the list in the comment you’re replying to.
celticninja 8y ago
You can avoid gemini and coinbase if you use bitcoin. You cannot avoid them if you use USDC/GUSD.
- hudon 8y ago
  When you say "use bitcoin", what do you mean? edit: Perhaps the lesson here is the more useful something is, the less freedom you have in using it. After all, why would regulators care if you can "use bitcoin" when "use" means "play with my private keys".
  - AgentME 8y ago
    Coinbase and Gemini aren't the only places that accept Bitcoin.
  - richardknop 8y ago
    Transfer the bitcoin from your wallet to any other non Gemini/Coinbase wallet. Most crypto people have private wallets. You can also use something like localbitcoins or Bitcoin ATM. Or you can literally meet with a person selling something for a coffee, transfer BTC to their wallet, they wait few minutes for on chain confirmation, give you stuff you bought, done.
lacker 8y ago
At least according to this document, when your USDC account is blacklisted you may no longer send or receive tokens from it. With Bitcoin, even if Coinbase blacklists you, you can still send your Bitcoin to other accounts and exchange it for things. I'm sure it's a huge pain but your Bitcoin will not just be lost forever.
- hudon 8y ago
  > With Bitcoin, even if Coinbase blacklists you, you can still send your Bitcoin to other accounts and exchange it for things This is not so. Coinbase and Gemini (I haven't checked others but I'm sure they're the same) will freeze your assets entirely if required by law or if you violate the user agreements in some flagrant way [0] [1]. [0] https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1905680-does-coinbase-freeze-accounts- https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/190... [1] https://gemini.com/user-agreement/#account-closure https://gemini.com/user-agreement/#account-closure
  - mitchdoogle 8y ago
    I think they mean if you are using your own wallet to store your bitcoin, then coinbase and gemini have no control over what you do with it, except not using their own services
    - hudon 8y ago
      Then back to my original point: If no exchanges allow you to deposit BTC, what are you doing with it? Once you've shamir-secret-split your multi-sig cold-storage private keys, laminated them, placed them in fireproof envelopes and dug them deep in the ground in 5 different continents... what exactly do you DO with your BTC?
      - plankers 8y ago
        Your original point was that _Coinbase and Gemeni_ had prevented you from exchanging your BTC for fiat currency. There's nothing preventing you from taking your BTC to some other exchange, or just some guy that accepts BTC for goods or services. That's the beauty of this whole decentralized thing.
VMG 8y ago
Coinbase is not a wallet.

by hudon 8y ago

lawn 8y ago

> but you can’t trade anywhere Just trade on all the other less regulated exchanges. Or localbitcoin. Or, you know, buy stuff. > and speculation is crypto’s only use case today. Or you buy stuff... For example: * Webhallen (huge Swedish online shop) * scan.co.uk (uk based computer online shop) * purse.io (buy stuff from amazon) * fastmail (emails) * VPN/VPS/domains from various providers * darknetmarkets

skybrian 8y ago
If they don't use the blacklist, will they get added to the blacklist? (Is it viral?)
- goodside 8y ago
  Yes. This is what Chainalysis does, among many other things — track tainted coins that people are intentionally obscuring the origin of.
hudon 8y ago
Why the hell would I buy Bitcoin to buy stuff on Amazon through a proxy site that sells my BTC for me instead of just... buying on Amazon like a normal person? BTC will be way slower and more expensive than just using my credit card... Plus Visa will refund me in the case of fraud. Like I side, speculation is the only thing you buy BTC for (moon!!!111), and the exchanges will prevent you from doing this if you are related to blacklisted accounts.
- lawn 8y ago
  > Why the hell would I buy Bitcoin to buy stuff on Amazon through a proxy site Because they give discounts up to 15%. I'm sorry it doesn't fit your narrative but there are reasons to prefer cryptocurrencies.
  - briatx 8y ago
    Like a lot of the crypto currency space purse.io is shady and likely promoting thinly veiled money laundering. Ask yourself if the discount is worth the risk of experiences like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4zczow/my_experience_with_purseio/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4zczow/my_experien...
  - hudon 8y ago
    15% sounds about right to offset the fraud risk, volatility risk, exchange fees, network fees, network congestion, transfer delays, fork risk, catastrophic bugs, and theft risk :) We all have narratives, buddy. Mine just doesn't hinge on gambling and crypto-anarchic utopia.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Why are they giving such a big discount? The transaction fees are nowhere near that high. Could it be that they're reselling fraudulent giftcards?
- antidesitter 8y ago
  > Like I side, speculation is the only thing you buy BTC for You've ignored the rest of the list in the comment you’re replying to.

celticninja 8y ago

You can avoid gemini and coinbase if you use bitcoin. You cannot avoid them if you use USDC/GUSD.

hudon 8y ago
When you say "use bitcoin", what do you mean? edit: Perhaps the lesson here is the more useful something is, the less freedom you have in using it. After all, why would regulators care if you can "use bitcoin" when "use" means "play with my private keys".
- AgentME 8y ago
  Coinbase and Gemini aren't the only places that accept Bitcoin.
- richardknop 8y ago
  Transfer the bitcoin from your wallet to any other non Gemini/Coinbase wallet. Most crypto people have private wallets. You can also use something like localbitcoins or Bitcoin ATM. Or you can literally meet with a person selling something for a coffee, transfer BTC to their wallet, they wait few minutes for on chain confirmation, give you stuff you bought, done.

lacker 8y ago

At least according to this document, when your USDC account is blacklisted you may no longer send or receive tokens from it. With Bitcoin, even if Coinbase blacklists you, you can still send your Bitcoin to other accounts and exchange it for things. I'm sure it's a huge pain but your Bitcoin will not just be lost forever.

hudon 8y ago
> With Bitcoin, even if Coinbase blacklists you, you can still send your Bitcoin to other accounts and exchange it for things This is not so. Coinbase and Gemini (I haven't checked others but I'm sure they're the same) will freeze your assets entirely if required by law or if you violate the user agreements in some flagrant way [0] [1]. [0] https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1905680-does-coinbase-freeze-accounts- https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/190... [1] https://gemini.com/user-agreement/#account-closure https://gemini.com/user-agreement/#account-closure
- mitchdoogle 8y ago
  I think they mean if you are using your own wallet to store your bitcoin, then coinbase and gemini have no control over what you do with it, except not using their own services
  - hudon 8y ago
    Then back to my original point: If no exchanges allow you to deposit BTC, what are you doing with it? Once you've shamir-secret-split your multi-sig cold-storage private keys, laminated them, placed them in fireproof envelopes and dug them deep in the ground in 5 different continents... what exactly do you DO with your BTC?
    - plankers 8y ago
      Your original point was that _Coinbase and Gemeni_ had prevented you from exchanging your BTC for fiat currency. There's nothing preventing you from taking your BTC to some other exchange, or just some guy that accepts BTC for goods or services. That's the beauty of this whole decentralized thing.

VMG 8y ago

Coinbase is not a wallet.