3 ms·

I am looking at this as an outsider. I'm European, and even though charismatic churches are global, their history is american. Anyway... I see your point. It's

by netcan 8y ago

I am looking at this as an outsider. I'm European, and even though charismatic churches are global, their history is american. Anyway... I see your point. It's true. But, you need to remember that american catholic and "mainline protestant" churches mostly descend from a state religion origin. The american revolution's secularism totally changed the role of the church. The church-state seperation (which is still very partial in most of europe) basically took away their roles in these capacities. In europe, these churches were (and still are) recipients of tax/public funds (whether direct, formal or indirect) and providers of public services. Churches often ran the health systems, school systems, orphanages, mother-infant homes, poorhouses and such. They also had/have much more formal, power wielding roles as community leaders, representatives.

thrmsforbfast 8y ago
This is a good point when comparing USA churches with their European counter-parts. However, the comparison I was making was specifically about the USA. Even without tax/public funds (or preferential tax treatment), American christian churches did engage in all of the things you list. There are hundreds of private, non-tax-funded middle schools, high schools, colleges, universities, and seminaries in the USA. Many of our hospital systems (that have long sense become beasts unto themselves) were started as religious charities without state funding. Almost all non-state-owned orphanages and homeless shelters were religiously affiliated charities that did not receive state funds. And many of these things were done by home-grown congregations. In an American context, the fact that the church did fill these roles even without preferential state support -- in fact, in a country where preferential state support was explicitly forbidden -- just makes the "then vs. now" comparison that much more concerning.
- netcan 8y ago
  I agree. I was suggesting that cultural origins play a role. The catholic church's culture in the US is heavily influenced by the catholic church globally and its history globally. So, they see those schools & hospitals as a part of what the church is, what it does and its role in society. Anyway... personally, I'm more worried about secular/non-religious bodies inability to perform functions historically provided by churches. For-profit, non-profit & public bodies can do hospitals & schools, and do. They don't do pastoral care very well. They don't build communities very well. .. That, IMO is where the crack is, that separation of church and state has left.

by netcan 8y ago

thrmsforbfast 8y ago

This is a good point when comparing USA churches with their European counter-parts. However, the comparison I was making was specifically about the USA. Even without tax/public funds (or preferential tax treatment), American christian churches did engage in all of the things you list. There are hundreds of private, non-tax-funded middle schools, high schools, colleges, universities, and seminaries in the USA. Many of our hospital systems (that have long sense become beasts unto themselves) were started as religious charities without state funding. Almost all non-state-owned orphanages and homeless shelters were religiously affiliated charities that did not receive state funds. And many of these things were done by home-grown congregations. In an American context, the fact that the church did fill these roles even without preferential state support -- in fact, in a country where preferential state support was explicitly forbidden -- just makes the "then vs. now" comparison that much more concerning.

netcan 8y ago
I agree. I was suggesting that cultural origins play a role. The catholic church's culture in the US is heavily influenced by the catholic church globally and its history globally. So, they see those schools & hospitals as a part of what the church is, what it does and its role in society. Anyway... personally, I'm more worried about secular/non-religious bodies inability to perform functions historically provided by churches. For-profit, non-profit & public bodies can do hospitals & schools, and do. They don't do pastoral care very well. They don't build communities very well. .. That, IMO is where the crack is, that separation of church and state has left.