4 ms·

The key diff between a lawyer and a knowledgeable lay person is the nature of the duty owed by each. There is no reason that a normal literate person can't bec

The key diff between a lawyer and a knowledgeable lay person is the nature of the duty owed by each. There is no reason that a normal literate person can't become an expert in a given legal topic, given similar levels of exposure and repetition. But the lawyer has special duties and privileges. One reason that lawyers (and legalistic non-lawyers) have this OCD "not your lawyer / not legal advice" verbal tic is the wish to be clear about when the attorney-client relationship is in play. I don't want anyone to think I owe them that duty. It's not just a matter of "only lawyers can understand this area". Because, given exposure to the same matters, the same laws, regulators, etc., lay business people can become just as expert in legal analysis. They should still hire an attorney, of course, just as a NBA star still has a coach, the Pope a confessor, etc. etc.

riku_iki 8y ago
> But the lawyer has special duties And what are those duties, and how they are enforced?
- gamblor956 8y ago
  They are what are known as "fiduciary" duties, and they're enforced by the local state bar association acting on complaints and malpractice lawsuits by aggrieved clients.
  - riku_iki 8y ago
    So, say I came to lawyer, he gave me wrong advice off the record, because wanted me bring him profit, then charged me $20k for 'legal research' with subsequent heavy litigation, what bar will do? It is nice that there are bars, but do they make any difference?
    - JamesBarney 8y ago
      Depending on the advice they could take away his license because a 20k payment fairly obviously creates a client-attorney relationship.
      - riku_iki 8y ago
        But lawyers almost always give advice off the record, you can't prove anything. In my observations, situation I described is very common.
        JamesBarney 8y ago
        Oh I missed that part of your post, if you're asking do bars punish lawyers when there is no evidence of wrong doing? The answer is it doesn't. But just saying it's off the record and billing out as legal research instead of practicing law doesn't protect you.
        ValentineC 8y ago
        > But lawyers almost always give advice off the record, you can't prove anything. If it's of any importance, a lawyer should be more than willing to provide their client with their advice in writing. This isn't much different from how one shouldn't perform high-stakes transactions without the certainty of a written contract.

riku_iki 8y ago

> But the lawyer has special duties And what are those duties, and how they are enforced?

gamblor956 8y ago
They are what are known as "fiduciary" duties, and they're enforced by the local state bar association acting on complaints and malpractice lawsuits by aggrieved clients.
- riku_iki 8y ago
  So, say I came to lawyer, he gave me wrong advice off the record, because wanted me bring him profit, then charged me $20k for 'legal research' with subsequent heavy litigation, what bar will do? It is nice that there are bars, but do they make any difference?
  - JamesBarney 8y ago
    Depending on the advice they could take away his license because a 20k payment fairly obviously creates a client-attorney relationship.
    - riku_iki 8y ago
      But lawyers almost always give advice off the record, you can't prove anything. In my observations, situation I described is very common.
      - JamesBarney 8y ago
        Oh I missed that part of your post, if you're asking do bars punish lawyers when there is no evidence of wrong doing? The answer is it doesn't. But just saying it's off the record and billing out as legal research instead of practicing law doesn't protect you.
      - ValentineC 8y ago
        > But lawyers almost always give advice off the record, you can't prove anything. If it's of any importance, a lawyer should be more than willing to provide their client with their advice in writing. This isn't much different from how one shouldn't perform high-stakes transactions without the certainty of a written contract.