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I have a lot of respect for iFixit. They at least appear to have their heads screwed on right, and the tools I've bought from them do really seem to be good qua

I have a lot of respect for iFixit. They at least appear to have their heads screwed on right, and the tools I've bought from them do really seem to be good quality. My only recent "complex" task that needed their tools was adding a hybrid water cooler to a 1080ti GPU. Their stuff was great, and their customer service has been good too. (EDIT: I meant to say, the addition went well due to their tools, good quality stuff means easier job with tiny screws) I'd love to see the right to repair/replace be enshrined in law. It's possible to strike a balance between tiny components and being able to replace them. My phone, a LG V20, is very thin, yet has a replaceable battery and is still waterproof to a "certain extent" (MIL-STD-810G but I'm not sure what exactly that means for waterproof-ness). Which is kind of amusing because I dropped the damn thing in the sink for the first time ever this morning. I'd love to see something like T-Mobile partner with iFixit and certify particular phones to be user or expert repairable. Hopefully this is the start of a larger movement in the world. (EDIT2: I really didn't intend this comment to sound so public-relation-y. I swear I'm not a product placement shill!)

chrisseaton 8y ago
What does T-Mobile know about hardware repairability? They’re a carrier aren’t they? They don’t have anything to do with any hardware.
- gowld 8y ago
  They sell phones along with their service so presumably they'd have an interest is selling people quality phones so they can capture more profit for the same total customer spend. but it's hard to beat the planned obsolescence model if they get a cut of the new phone sales
- bloopernova 8y ago
  (I freely admit this is naive and idealistic) I'd like to see T-Mobile, or some other corporation with similar influencing power, promote the right to repair. I chose T-Mobile because they have this (PR generated, for sure) image of bucking the big telcom trend and "putting their customers first". I feel that it's another niche that could help people. You have the rugged phone niche, the kid phone, the simple phone, etc etc. A repairable phone might be desirable to some people.
- balls187 8y ago
  T-Mobile is an UNcarrier. And to the extent they can, providing top level customer service is one of their biggest selling points.
- gumby 8y ago
  They have a huge infrastructure of fixed hardware, of course (their phones have to talk to something) and certifying & deploying that requires plenty of EEs and a surprising amount of hardware development (and getting in deep with their vendors). Things have changed since I was a supplier to that industry but it used to be that the carriers really did certify the terminals. GSM (well, the SIM requirement), and then in the US the iPhone, changed that so I don't know how that end works today. In addition T-mobile is a subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom which does still do quite a bit of hardware development, though I'm not sure how close the links there are. (plus they are a huge channel)
- toast0 8y ago
  To the extend that carriers curate the hardware they sell in their store (and for some carriers, support on their network), they could provide some sort of indication of how likely it is to be fixable. T-Mobile has a reputation of caring slightly more about their users than other carriers in the US, so they might be a good target. Fixing phones could be a reasonable side business for their phones, so it could work out as a win-win for them -- if you buy a fixable phone, they would probably be able to fix it for you it's broken.
  - bradknowles 8y ago
    So, a shade of black that is slightly less black than VantaBlack™?
ateesdalejr 8y ago
What exactly would qualify a phone as user repairable? I'm guessing something could be repairable by users, but the costs of the tools are prohibitive. Would that be considered user repairable or would cost of materials and tools have to factor into the equation?
- Vinnl 8y ago
  iFixit actually has a rating system for that: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability
  - ateesdalejr 8y ago
    Thanks! That list is really cool! Interesting that only a few phones have scores of 10. One of them is called Fairphone, which actually looks like it would be a nice device.
    - Vinnl 8y ago
      As far as I know the Fairphone 2 is the only phone with a score of 10. Coincidentally, I have one, and it's pretty amazing. I can detach and replace the screen of the phone without even needing a screwdriver.
- krtkush 8y ago
  > but the costs of the tools are prohibitive. A device being repairable does not equate to the device being repairable by the owner only. The cost for a tool could be prohibitive for a single person but would still make sense for a professional third party repair company.
  - samstave 8y ago
    There is an apple official repair video for the replacement of a battery on the iPhoneX (IIRC) -- and its comically complex process to replace the battery - and requires this specally constructed aluminum scaffold-like rig structure to apply the appropriate adhesion pressure. The device is custom made for apple by some machine shop in the south bay, and obviously unlikely available to plebs-like-us... (I can't find the video any longer - apple likely had it removed) My point being; if apple has such stellar HW designers, 1. the fact that they needed a ~30 minute official training video on the proper replacement which required 2. a custom rig to install the new battery which was 3. only made by some small-ish machine shop in san jose is mildyinfuriating.... I think that a measure of HW design prowess should be service/repairability as a base KPI for considered being 'good design'.
moftz 8y ago
MIL-STD-810G doesn't really mean anything unless they have test results available. That standard is mostly just a list of lab tests and how to perform them. It could mean anything from the product is designed to comply but never tested all the way up it passing the whole gambit of various tests. Military hardware is going to actually be tested if the manufacturer wants to sell it to the government. No one is regulating the standard for consumer hardware. IP codes at least mean something in regards to what the product is supposedly designed to handle, whether or not the rating is legit is another story.
- bloopernova 8y ago
  Cool, thank you. From a quick glance at the wikipedia page I saw that it could mean a whole bunch of different stuff, or almost nothing. I'm just glad my phone is still working after dropping it in water this morning!
  - moftz 8y ago
    My Nexus 6P has pretty much zero waterproof rating but I've dropped it in the sink face up before with the full stream falling right onto the screen. The front speakers are a little quieter but it still works otherwise, I thought for sure it would have been an instant death. Unless you have a real IP rating, it's a crapshoot how well your phone works under harsh environments.
dsr_ 8y ago
The LG V20 is not listed as being waterproof at all. The MIL-STD-810G covers a great many things, and it seems likely that the V20 was tested for impact resistance, not waterproofing.
- bloopernova 8y ago
  Huh, I had no idea. I very vaguely recall being told it was immersion-proof by some review or other back when I first got it. I will make sure it is fully dry and no damage has occurred. Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it a lot!
fipple 8y ago
I don’t really think the government needs to legislate this. I buy iPhones because I don’t give a shit about repairability. I use the phone for 3-4 years and then set it up as basically a remote control in my house until it’s useless. If I break it out of warranty I throw it out. Other people who care about repairability can buy other brands.
- MattHeard 8y ago
  Recycle your Apple devices by returning them to Apple. You might get in-store credit: https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in
- devwastaken 8y ago
  Except hardware and software are patentable. If we didn't have that and companies could make true alternatives, sure, but as far as technology goes it's highly monopalistic. Your argument is also the definition of selfishness given that you only take into account your own circumstances. You're literally advocating against yourself.
  - fipple 8y ago
    No, I’m saying that different peoples needs are different. I’d rather have the phone 1mm thinner than repairable. You may be different. Companies should compete for our custom.
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    i honestly don't think any significant fraction of iphone buyers care about repairability. if they do at all, i really doubt they care enough to compromise on price or visual appeal / thinness. could be you're the selfish one trying to bend the entire industry towards your fringe interest.
  - lobotryas 8y ago
    I don't think GP is selfish - he's just outlining what works for him and what his use-case is. For example, I kind-of care about repairability, but not enough to go through the effort of switching from the iOS echosystem. Finally, what's wrong with being selfish? I think it's a completely rational approach to take.

chrisseaton 8y ago

What does T-Mobile know about hardware repairability? They’re a carrier aren’t they? They don’t have anything to do with any hardware.

gowld 8y ago
They sell phones along with their service so presumably they'd have an interest is selling people quality phones so they can capture more profit for the same total customer spend. but it's hard to beat the planned obsolescence model if they get a cut of the new phone sales
bloopernova 8y ago
(I freely admit this is naive and idealistic) I'd like to see T-Mobile, or some other corporation with similar influencing power, promote the right to repair. I chose T-Mobile because they have this (PR generated, for sure) image of bucking the big telcom trend and "putting their customers first". I feel that it's another niche that could help people. You have the rugged phone niche, the kid phone, the simple phone, etc etc. A repairable phone might be desirable to some people.
balls187 8y ago
T-Mobile is an UNcarrier. And to the extent they can, providing top level customer service is one of their biggest selling points.
gumby 8y ago
They have a huge infrastructure of fixed hardware, of course (their phones have to talk to something) and certifying & deploying that requires plenty of EEs and a surprising amount of hardware development (and getting in deep with their vendors). Things have changed since I was a supplier to that industry but it used to be that the carriers really did certify the terminals. GSM (well, the SIM requirement), and then in the US the iPhone, changed that so I don't know how that end works today. In addition T-mobile is a subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom which does still do quite a bit of hardware development, though I'm not sure how close the links there are. (plus they are a huge channel)
toast0 8y ago
To the extend that carriers curate the hardware they sell in their store (and for some carriers, support on their network), they could provide some sort of indication of how likely it is to be fixable. T-Mobile has a reputation of caring slightly more about their users than other carriers in the US, so they might be a good target. Fixing phones could be a reasonable side business for their phones, so it could work out as a win-win for them -- if you buy a fixable phone, they would probably be able to fix it for you it's broken.
- bradknowles 8y ago
  So, a shade of black that is slightly less black than VantaBlack™?

ateesdalejr 8y ago

What exactly would qualify a phone as user repairable? I'm guessing something could be repairable by users, but the costs of the tools are prohibitive. Would that be considered user repairable or would cost of materials and tools have to factor into the equation?

Vinnl 8y ago
iFixit actually has a rating system for that: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability
- ateesdalejr 8y ago
  Thanks! That list is really cool! Interesting that only a few phones have scores of 10. One of them is called Fairphone, which actually looks like it would be a nice device.
  - Vinnl 8y ago
    As far as I know the Fairphone 2 is the only phone with a score of 10. Coincidentally, I have one, and it's pretty amazing. I can detach and replace the screen of the phone without even needing a screwdriver.
krtkush 8y ago
> but the costs of the tools are prohibitive. A device being repairable does not equate to the device being repairable by the owner only. The cost for a tool could be prohibitive for a single person but would still make sense for a professional third party repair company.
- samstave 8y ago
  There is an apple official repair video for the replacement of a battery on the iPhoneX (IIRC) -- and its comically complex process to replace the battery - and requires this specally constructed aluminum scaffold-like rig structure to apply the appropriate adhesion pressure. The device is custom made for apple by some machine shop in the south bay, and obviously unlikely available to plebs-like-us... (I can't find the video any longer - apple likely had it removed) My point being; if apple has such stellar HW designers, 1. the fact that they needed a ~30 minute official training video on the proper replacement which required 2. a custom rig to install the new battery which was 3. only made by some small-ish machine shop in san jose is mildyinfuriating.... I think that a measure of HW design prowess should be service/repairability as a base KPI for considered being 'good design'.

moftz 8y ago

MIL-STD-810G doesn't really mean anything unless they have test results available. That standard is mostly just a list of lab tests and how to perform them. It could mean anything from the product is designed to comply but never tested all the way up it passing the whole gambit of various tests. Military hardware is going to actually be tested if the manufacturer wants to sell it to the government. No one is regulating the standard for consumer hardware. IP codes at least mean something in regards to what the product is supposedly designed to handle, whether or not the rating is legit is another story.

bloopernova 8y ago
Cool, thank you. From a quick glance at the wikipedia page I saw that it could mean a whole bunch of different stuff, or almost nothing. I'm just glad my phone is still working after dropping it in water this morning!
- moftz 8y ago
  My Nexus 6P has pretty much zero waterproof rating but I've dropped it in the sink face up before with the full stream falling right onto the screen. The front speakers are a little quieter but it still works otherwise, I thought for sure it would have been an instant death. Unless you have a real IP rating, it's a crapshoot how well your phone works under harsh environments.

dsr_ 8y ago

The LG V20 is not listed as being waterproof at all. The MIL-STD-810G covers a great many things, and it seems likely that the V20 was tested for impact resistance, not waterproofing.

bloopernova 8y ago
Huh, I had no idea. I very vaguely recall being told it was immersion-proof by some review or other back when I first got it. I will make sure it is fully dry and no damage has occurred. Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it a lot!

fipple 8y ago

I don’t really think the government needs to legislate this. I buy iPhones because I don’t give a shit about repairability. I use the phone for 3-4 years and then set it up as basically a remote control in my house until it’s useless. If I break it out of warranty I throw it out. Other people who care about repairability can buy other brands.

MattHeard 8y ago
Recycle your Apple devices by returning them to Apple. You might get in-store credit: https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in
devwastaken 8y ago
Except hardware and software are patentable. If we didn't have that and companies could make true alternatives, sure, but as far as technology goes it's highly monopalistic. Your argument is also the definition of selfishness given that you only take into account your own circumstances. You're literally advocating against yourself.
- fipple 8y ago
  No, I’m saying that different peoples needs are different. I’d rather have the phone 1mm thinner than repairable. You may be different. Companies should compete for our custom.
- leetcrew 8y ago
  i honestly don't think any significant fraction of iphone buyers care about repairability. if they do at all, i really doubt they care enough to compromise on price or visual appeal / thinness. could be you're the selfish one trying to bend the entire industry towards your fringe interest.
- lobotryas 8y ago
  I don't think GP is selfish - he's just outlining what works for him and what his use-case is. For example, I kind-of care about repairability, but not enough to go through the effort of switching from the iOS echosystem. Finally, what's wrong with being selfish? I think it's a completely rational approach to take.