4 ms·

I went to a few Hillsong events about 10 years ago, when the church was becoming very obvious cultural influence Australia-wide. There is a lot that's very entr

by netcan 8y ago

I went to a few Hillsong events about 10 years ago, when the church was becoming very obvious cultural influence Australia-wide. There is a lot that's very entrepreneurial about this church. They also started Gloria Jean's, a big, international Starbucks competitor. Like the music stuff, this had to do with youth culture and creating social aspects to the movement. In Australia a lot of people called the denomination "charismatic churches" which is largely overlapping with "evangelical" in the states, where it comes from. The larger family of denominations has been growing and internationalising at a serious pace. In any case, when it comes to religion, opinions are.. sensitive. But, I think the recent history of this religion is worth learning about, for those interested, just because they've been "making things happen". Religions are pretty diverse structurally, from one another. Hillsong and related movements (mostly descendants of American evangelical denominations) tend to be quite decentralised. The Church (institution) and the church (building/parish) are almost the same thing. They don't have a traditional, top-heavy hierarchy (bishops, cardinals) and they don't have a traditional local parochial structure.

thrmsforbfast 8y ago
> just because they've been "making things happen". Actually, my biggest fear about Christianity in the USA today is that it's NOT "making things happen" Or, perhaps more accurately, the things that it's making happen are businesses. The mainline congregations and Catholics of the 19th and early-mid 20th centuries made serious contributions to: 1. Education. In addition to the obvious middle and high schools, they started colleges and universities. There are literally hundreds of catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, etc. colleges dotting rural America. There are also many more that have since shaken the affiliation but were originally started as schools for pastors and teachers. These christian educational institutions touched more than just the churches; e.g., Fred Rogers was educated at a college founded by Congregationalists and a seminary founded by Presbyterians. 2. Pastoral training/care. Aside from the above-mentioned colleges and universities, these congregations also started/supported seminaries and -- perhaps more importantly -- insisted on well-trained pastoral leadership that understood the church's teachings. 3. Congregational care. This included everything from helping out a sick congregant, to gardening, to helping keep the church building in working condition. 4. Community care. Everything from running food pantries to setting up and staffing health clinics, and sometimes even entire hospitals. Many modern christian churches aren't much more than tax-free concert venues with a self-help workshop on the side run by charismatic communications majors. They'll take the parsonage exemption, but don't seriously engage in any of the traditional Christian charity work: education, healthcare, caring for the homeless and elderly, or even teaching the gospel. Even the congregation's own members seem to have become not much more than leads for related businesses; e.g., the charismatic church a family friend attends runs a (very profitable) counseling center and refers its members there for basically every problem mentioned to a pastor or other staff member. Not a casserole in sight when she threw out her back, though. Which I suppose is reasonable. After all, running a lead-generating combination concert/lecture venue is already a full-time job.
- mysterydip 8y ago
  Agreed. When I moved into a new area and was "church hunting", one of my stops was the largest church in the area, with multiple satellite campuses. I realized why it was so popular: every Sunday was a big production. People were going to be entertained, not engaged. There's definitely a continuum, though. There are small churches doing the traditional thing just as there's megachurches doing God, Inc. The church I attend now has a definite focus on the fundamentals you listed above.
  - Balgair 8y ago
    Semi-related: How are the scout troops out of those two types of churches? Is there a big difference between the mega and the regular church sponsored scout troops? We're starting to look for a good one and would love to know what to look out for, if anything.
    - mysterydip 8y ago
      With the larger churches you can get more people showing up so that can be good, but it depends how it's run. There are some that break down every non-Sunday-sermon level thing into a "small group" level of organization, and the quality varies by who leads. They also could have more budget to do better trips or activities. Smaller venues trade population for intimacy. More one on one time to invest. When you get down to it, my (albeit limited) experience has been the size doesn't matter as much as the people involved. Hopefully that helps!
      - Balgair 8y ago
        It does! Thank you!
  - gscott 8y ago
    Big churches that are charismatic and feel like concert venues (The Rock Church here in San Diego for instance) I don't feel are necessarily bad. If that is the door into religion then one could find their way to another congregation like the Methodists who truly focus on good works (help for those recently out of prisons, etc).

by netcan 8y ago

thrmsforbfast 8y ago

> just because they've been "making things happen". Actually, my biggest fear about Christianity in the USA today is that it's NOT "making things happen" Or, perhaps more accurately, the things that it's making happen are businesses. The mainline congregations and Catholics of the 19th and early-mid 20th centuries made serious contributions to: 1. Education. In addition to the obvious middle and high schools, they started colleges and universities. There are literally hundreds of catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, etc. colleges dotting rural America. There are also many more that have since shaken the affiliation but were originally started as schools for pastors and teachers. These christian educational institutions touched more than just the churches; e.g., Fred Rogers was educated at a college founded by Congregationalists and a seminary founded by Presbyterians. 2. Pastoral training/care. Aside from the above-mentioned colleges and universities, these congregations also started/supported seminaries and -- perhaps more importantly -- insisted on well-trained pastoral leadership that understood the church's teachings. 3. Congregational care. This included everything from helping out a sick congregant, to gardening, to helping keep the church building in working condition. 4. Community care. Everything from running food pantries to setting up and staffing health clinics, and sometimes even entire hospitals. Many modern christian churches aren't much more than tax-free concert venues with a self-help workshop on the side run by charismatic communications majors. They'll take the parsonage exemption, but don't seriously engage in any of the traditional Christian charity work: education, healthcare, caring for the homeless and elderly, or even teaching the gospel. Even the congregation's own members seem to have become not much more than leads for related businesses; e.g., the charismatic church a family friend attends runs a (very profitable) counseling center and refers its members there for basically every problem mentioned to a pastor or other staff member. Not a casserole in sight when she threw out her back, though. Which I suppose is reasonable. After all, running a lead-generating combination concert/lecture venue is already a full-time job.

mysterydip 8y ago
Agreed. When I moved into a new area and was "church hunting", one of my stops was the largest church in the area, with multiple satellite campuses. I realized why it was so popular: every Sunday was a big production. People were going to be entertained, not engaged. There's definitely a continuum, though. There are small churches doing the traditional thing just as there's megachurches doing God, Inc. The church I attend now has a definite focus on the fundamentals you listed above.
- Balgair 8y ago
  Semi-related: How are the scout troops out of those two types of churches? Is there a big difference between the mega and the regular church sponsored scout troops? We're starting to look for a good one and would love to know what to look out for, if anything.
  - mysterydip 8y ago
    With the larger churches you can get more people showing up so that can be good, but it depends how it's run. There are some that break down every non-Sunday-sermon level thing into a "small group" level of organization, and the quality varies by who leads. They also could have more budget to do better trips or activities. Smaller venues trade population for intimacy. More one on one time to invest. When you get down to it, my (albeit limited) experience has been the size doesn't matter as much as the people involved. Hopefully that helps!
    - Balgair 8y ago
      It does! Thank you!
- gscott 8y ago
  Big churches that are charismatic and feel like concert venues (The Rock Church here in San Diego for instance) I don't feel are necessarily bad. If that is the door into religion then one could find their way to another congregation like the Methodists who truly focus on good works (help for those recently out of prisons, etc).