4 ms·

> Quite honestly, most companies don't care about one's compiler theory knowledge or ability to build shell scripting interpreters, nor should they. Right. Lik

> Quite honestly, most companies don't care about one's compiler theory knowledge or ability to build shell scripting interpreters, nor should they. Right. Like how you don't care about the persons' physics knowledge when hiring an architect. /s

ElFitz 8y ago
No. Like you don't care about one's ability to make some concrete when hiring an architect. It's nice to have, might be essential on some specific projects. Usually won't matter.
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  I'm sorry, but if architect cannot make some concrete, i.e. he doesn't know basics of his profession, what you expect from him? A house? Yes, you can hire him, but that will cost you lot of money. There are tons of examples of cheap architect work, e.g. collapsed bridges in the Western Europe.
  - ElFitz 8y ago
    I seriously wonder about the proportion of architects who ever mixed any concrete themselves in their lives. Seriously, almost no developer would be able to write a compiler today. The same way I wouldn't be able to build a micro-processor worth anything. You wouldn't expect any compiler knowledge from most web (back or front) developers, the same way you wouldn't expect much GUI or globally distributed consistent databases knowledge or experience from most embedded developers. And it's just fine. It's their problem, their limitation, their career, them missing out and, no, in most cases, it won't impact their jobs or the quality of what they make in any way. Why do you have to have a problem with that ? Edit: also, bridges collapse all over the world. Tunnels too.
    - v_lisivka 8y ago
      I'm software developer (backend, fronted, cloud, embedded, etc), but it's often very helpful to know how hardware works, how processor works, how kernel works, how compiler works, how network works, and so on, because it's allow me to make my abstraction at top of all these layers to work much more efficient. It's not expected that I will be expert in all that, but it's expected that I will know basics, so I will not make noob mistakes. Are you expecting noob mistakes from architect, which made your home? Or it's ok if he made mistakes in someone else home or bridge?
      - ElFitz 8y ago
        I'm a software developer too. Mostly mobile and backend. On the mobile part, most of the clients have pretty much no idea what a processor really is, or how networks work. Hell, I have to explain to them that if they want to build this kittens social network, they're going to need a back-end and that no, it doesn't matter to the mobile apps what language their back-end is written in (and vice-versa). For most of what these people ask, all you need to know are the basics of Android and iOS's SDKs and how to make API calls. Half the time, their isn't even any networking involved ! I'd be thrilled to work in an environment where this kind of knowledge matters. But like most people I'm stuck working with some people who'll tell you that they don't want to be software developers; it's just a means to an end to them (which is fine. Just don't use that as a shoddy excuse for doing crap), refactoring codebases built by some kids who don't have any software architecture knowledge and don't see the problem in their network layers popping modals and alerts, wondering how on earth a view could end up being a singleton (and no, "I was somehow convinced I needed to access it and change it's properties from this class over there" is not a satisfactory answer) or spend half my day on a single rebase because of some git submodule crap. So yeah, for most of the people I've had the 'delight' of working with, they are missing so much that no, hardware intricacies, processors inner working, compilers logic and functioning or networking knowledge aren't the critical aspects they're missing. Heck, I'd be glad if their code was even just readable and had anything resembling an architecture. Or if they didn't turn everything and anything into a singleton whenever they felt like it. I'm going to stop now. But going back to the architects analogy, if these developers where architects, then most of those I've met can't tell the difference between plumbing and electrical wiring, so I'd be glad if they left the concrete to the craftsmen and at least managed the basics of their jobs' specifics.
flowwlol 8y ago
I'm going to say it. 99% of 42s students wont be architects. It's just the reality. I come from one of these schools, and the best thing you can say about the teaching : It teaches you how to learn. If you think anything else you learn is how it works in a company. you're wrong :)

ElFitz 8y ago

No. Like you don't care about one's ability to make some concrete when hiring an architect. It's nice to have, might be essential on some specific projects. Usually won't matter.

v_lisivka 8y ago
I'm sorry, but if architect cannot make some concrete, i.e. he doesn't know basics of his profession, what you expect from him? A house? Yes, you can hire him, but that will cost you lot of money. There are tons of examples of cheap architect work, e.g. collapsed bridges in the Western Europe.
- ElFitz 8y ago
  I seriously wonder about the proportion of architects who ever mixed any concrete themselves in their lives. Seriously, almost no developer would be able to write a compiler today. The same way I wouldn't be able to build a micro-processor worth anything. You wouldn't expect any compiler knowledge from most web (back or front) developers, the same way you wouldn't expect much GUI or globally distributed consistent databases knowledge or experience from most embedded developers. And it's just fine. It's their problem, their limitation, their career, them missing out and, no, in most cases, it won't impact their jobs or the quality of what they make in any way. Why do you have to have a problem with that ? Edit: also, bridges collapse all over the world. Tunnels too.
  - v_lisivka 8y ago
    I'm software developer (backend, fronted, cloud, embedded, etc), but it's often very helpful to know how hardware works, how processor works, how kernel works, how compiler works, how network works, and so on, because it's allow me to make my abstraction at top of all these layers to work much more efficient. It's not expected that I will be expert in all that, but it's expected that I will know basics, so I will not make noob mistakes. Are you expecting noob mistakes from architect, which made your home? Or it's ok if he made mistakes in someone else home or bridge?
    - ElFitz 8y ago
      I'm a software developer too. Mostly mobile and backend. On the mobile part, most of the clients have pretty much no idea what a processor really is, or how networks work. Hell, I have to explain to them that if they want to build this kittens social network, they're going to need a back-end and that no, it doesn't matter to the mobile apps what language their back-end is written in (and vice-versa). For most of what these people ask, all you need to know are the basics of Android and iOS's SDKs and how to make API calls. Half the time, their isn't even any networking involved ! I'd be thrilled to work in an environment where this kind of knowledge matters. But like most people I'm stuck working with some people who'll tell you that they don't want to be software developers; it's just a means to an end to them (which is fine. Just don't use that as a shoddy excuse for doing crap), refactoring codebases built by some kids who don't have any software architecture knowledge and don't see the problem in their network layers popping modals and alerts, wondering how on earth a view could end up being a singleton (and no, "I was somehow convinced I needed to access it and change it's properties from this class over there" is not a satisfactory answer) or spend half my day on a single rebase because of some git submodule crap. So yeah, for most of the people I've had the 'delight' of working with, they are missing so much that no, hardware intricacies, processors inner working, compilers logic and functioning or networking knowledge aren't the critical aspects they're missing. Heck, I'd be glad if their code was even just readable and had anything resembling an architecture. Or if they didn't turn everything and anything into a singleton whenever they felt like it. I'm going to stop now. But going back to the architects analogy, if these developers where architects, then most of those I've met can't tell the difference between plumbing and electrical wiring, so I'd be glad if they left the concrete to the craftsmen and at least managed the basics of their jobs' specifics.

flowwlol 8y ago

I'm going to say it. 99% of 42s students wont be architects. It's just the reality. I come from one of these schools, and the best thing you can say about the teaching : It teaches you how to learn. If you think anything else you learn is how it works in a company. you're wrong :)