6 ms·

You forgot to mention the private schools are expensive and use a somewhat pyramidal scheme where older students teach newer ones to repaid part of their school

You forgot to mention the private schools are expensive and use a somewhat pyramidal scheme where older students teach newer ones to repaid part of their school fees. In public education all teachers hold PhD or engineer titles so they have more years to think about what they teach than the guy who is only year+2 of the teachee. Edit: I checked Epitech tuition fees, it's around 40k€ for the whole 5 years curriculum. You can make a century of studies for the same price in any public university.

fhrow4484 8y ago
> private schools are expensive > I checked Epitech tuition fees, it's around 40k€ for the whole 5 years curriculum $9100 a year is indeed expensive for French schools, but I'm sure some Americans on the other side of the ponds are chuckling right now.
- maxymoos 8y ago
  For comparison purposes, tuition fees in a French public engineering school were around 700€/$800 per year when I was there about a decade ago, and I wouldn't expect this to have changed much.
  - tomsmeding 8y ago
    Not sure about France, but in the Netherlands now it's 2000 euros. Though I believe people are trying to lower that again.
  - sacado2 8y ago
    In the University where I teach, fees are below €500 a year, AFAIK.
  - namdnay 8y ago
    And if you're the best of the best, they pay you to attend (X, ENS)
    - palunon 8y ago
      No they don't. The chaussette has to be repaid...
  - abronan 8y ago
    This is without considering students whose parents have low revenue, thus getting access to financial help from the government. This was my case. Technically, I was paid to go to University, with 3600€ per year for being one of the top students.
  - moviuro 8y ago
    2012-2015 was still 700€/year at Centrale - I'll let you guess which one. Don't forget though that housing, food, "Sécurité Sociale", library, etc. weren't included.
    - titanix2 8y ago
      Yes but food and housing is not included either when attending a private school.
  - majewsky 8y ago
    For more comparison, tuition feeds at my alma mater (a German university) were 500€ per year. Most of that was for the semester ticket, that allowed me to use public transit completely for free across the entire state (Saxony).
  - baby 8y ago
    For comparison purposes, tuition fees in a French university were around 0$
- BeetleB 8y ago
  >$9100 a year is indeed expensive for French schools, but I'm sure some Americans on the other side of the ponds are chuckling right now. Good public schools are about that much - or less. At Ann Arbor it would be $8000/year for tuition.
EZ-E 8y ago
Some of their practice does suck, but it does work nonetheless since nearly everyone end up finding a decent paying job after graduation. You could find bad things about the public institutions too (some people complaining about coding on paper, outdated etc). As I said "This kind of discussion will end up being the typical (French) disdain between people learning engineering in the public schools v/s the ones learning in these "practical teaching" private schools and vice versa." At the end of the day, both ways work. One is free if you fit the public education.
realusername 8y ago
It's indeed very expensive but if you want a school with a 5 years curriculum focused on practice it's not like there's much choice in the public schools unfortunately.
JeanMarcS 8y ago
Isn’t 42 free ?
- loup-vaillant 8y ago
  It is. It's Epitech that's expensive.
arcatek 8y ago
Something interesting is that the way Epitech (and 42) work is completely different from what you would have in public schools (at least in France). For example, one key part for me was that the school allowed me to practically don't go to classes as long as I could prove that my work wasn't affected. It's something that you won't find everyday. I'm 100% sure I'd have failed university otherwise because the lack of freedom would have bored me to death Conversely, friends of mine have dropped from Epitech in the first two years because they didn't get enough support, so it shows that the most interesting thing the school has to offer is its learning devices. They understood that one size doesn't fit all (which is against the French public school philosophy). So yeah, the tuition is expensive (and frankly given how the school works you sometimes wonder whether they eat luxury cars for lunch), but there's simply no public alternative. One other factor I've also wondered is if people paying for their scholarships weren't more invested in making it a success? I knew my fair share of people who weren't thriving as developers at Epitech as well, mind you, but most of them dropped before the end.
- williamdclt 8y ago
  I don't understand, you say they allow to learn at your own pace but don't offer enough support for those who need it, that certainly sounds like trying to fit all with one size? I've done Ensimag, which is a public school in the same sector, and you definitely could skip classes if you wanted to (though most of the ones who skipped classes did it out of sloppiness)
  - arcatek 8y ago
    I meant "at your own pace" as in "they let you decide how you want to learn it". Meaning that instead of following classes (which were quite basic anyway) I spent most of my time reading man pages and reading obscure forums, and they were perfectly fine with that. Those who had issues were those who needed to be told where and what exactly to look for. They often felt like they were paying for little to no teaching (which is true, in a sense, but I preferred to see it as an opportunity to grow by myself in an environment where I could have extra resources at my disposal if I needed to - the best one often being other students, sometimes from previous years).
ttoinou 8y ago
You can make a century of studies for the same price in any public university Sure, if you manage to not pay taxes
baby 8y ago
having been through university in France, I can tell you that the PhD teachers give no shit about their students or how they teach their courses.

fhrow4484 8y ago

> private schools are expensive > I checked Epitech tuition fees, it's around 40k€ for the whole 5 years curriculum $9100 a year is indeed expensive for French schools, but I'm sure some Americans on the other side of the ponds are chuckling right now.

maxymoos 8y ago
For comparison purposes, tuition fees in a French public engineering school were around 700€/$800 per year when I was there about a decade ago, and I wouldn't expect this to have changed much.
- tomsmeding 8y ago
  Not sure about France, but in the Netherlands now it's 2000 euros. Though I believe people are trying to lower that again.
- sacado2 8y ago
  In the University where I teach, fees are below €500 a year, AFAIK.
- namdnay 8y ago
  And if you're the best of the best, they pay you to attend (X, ENS)
  - palunon 8y ago
    No they don't. The chaussette has to be repaid...
- abronan 8y ago
  This is without considering students whose parents have low revenue, thus getting access to financial help from the government. This was my case. Technically, I was paid to go to University, with 3600€ per year for being one of the top students.
- moviuro 8y ago
  2012-2015 was still 700€/year at Centrale - I'll let you guess which one. Don't forget though that housing, food, "Sécurité Sociale", library, etc. weren't included.
  - titanix2 8y ago
    Yes but food and housing is not included either when attending a private school.
- majewsky 8y ago
  For more comparison, tuition feeds at my alma mater (a German university) were 500€ per year. Most of that was for the semester ticket, that allowed me to use public transit completely for free across the entire state (Saxony).
- baby 8y ago
  For comparison purposes, tuition fees in a French university were around 0$
BeetleB 8y ago
>$9100 a year is indeed expensive for French schools, but I'm sure some Americans on the other side of the ponds are chuckling right now. Good public schools are about that much - or less. At Ann Arbor it would be $8000/year for tuition.

EZ-E 8y ago

Some of their practice does suck, but it does work nonetheless since nearly everyone end up finding a decent paying job after graduation. You could find bad things about the public institutions too (some people complaining about coding on paper, outdated etc). As I said "This kind of discussion will end up being the typical (French) disdain between people learning engineering in the public schools v/s the ones learning in these "practical teaching" private schools and vice versa." At the end of the day, both ways work. One is free if you fit the public education.

realusername 8y ago

It's indeed very expensive but if you want a school with a 5 years curriculum focused on practice it's not like there's much choice in the public schools unfortunately.

JeanMarcS 8y ago

Isn’t 42 free ?

loup-vaillant 8y ago
It is. It's Epitech that's expensive.

arcatek 8y ago

Something interesting is that the way Epitech (and 42) work is completely different from what you would have in public schools (at least in France). For example, one key part for me was that the school allowed me to practically don't go to classes as long as I could prove that my work wasn't affected. It's something that you won't find everyday. I'm 100% sure I'd have failed university otherwise because the lack of freedom would have bored me to death Conversely, friends of mine have dropped from Epitech in the first two years because they didn't get enough support, so it shows that the most interesting thing the school has to offer is its learning devices. They understood that one size doesn't fit all (which is against the French public school philosophy). So yeah, the tuition is expensive (and frankly given how the school works you sometimes wonder whether they eat luxury cars for lunch), but there's simply no public alternative. One other factor I've also wondered is if people paying for their scholarships weren't more invested in making it a success? I knew my fair share of people who weren't thriving as developers at Epitech as well, mind you, but most of them dropped before the end.

williamdclt 8y ago
I don't understand, you say they allow to learn at your own pace but don't offer enough support for those who need it, that certainly sounds like trying to fit all with one size? I've done Ensimag, which is a public school in the same sector, and you definitely could skip classes if you wanted to (though most of the ones who skipped classes did it out of sloppiness)
- arcatek 8y ago
  I meant "at your own pace" as in "they let you decide how you want to learn it". Meaning that instead of following classes (which were quite basic anyway) I spent most of my time reading man pages and reading obscure forums, and they were perfectly fine with that. Those who had issues were those who needed to be told where and what exactly to look for. They often felt like they were paying for little to no teaching (which is true, in a sense, but I preferred to see it as an opportunity to grow by myself in an environment where I could have extra resources at my disposal if I needed to - the best one often being other students, sometimes from previous years).

ttoinou 8y ago

You can make a century of studies for the same price in any public university Sure, if you manage to not pay taxes

baby 8y ago

having been through university in France, I can tell you that the PhD teachers give no shit about their students or how they teach their courses.