13 ms·

Myth of the Brown Recluse

183 points by josephpmay 8y ago

3rdAccount 8y ago
As someone living right in recluse territory, I'm constantly terrified when going into a closet to get clothes...etc, even though I see black widows all the time. Any time you're at the gas pump or in your garage, look around and you can probably find one.
- fastball 8y ago
  Yeah, I was hoping that this article would talk about how Brown Recluse aren't actually dangerous (as I live in Texas), but instead it talked about California, and it appears Brown Recluse are still quite dangerous. I see them a lot. Could we change the title to "Myth of the Brown Recluse in California" or something?
  - macintux 8y ago
    > I was hoping that this article would talk about how Brown Recluse aren't actually dangerous It does to some degree, with anecdotes of interactions with no ill effects. Clearly it can cause severe health issues, but the vast majority if the time it doesn't.
    - saalweachter 8y ago
      It puts it more in the range of plane crashes. They're not good, but they are rare, even if you're flying on a plane regularly. And then you have California, which is terrified of plane crashes, either that they might be in one or that they're in the middle of one right now, even though they never fly and have no need or intention of ever flying.
Multicomp 8y ago
In GA, I am wary for the black widow and the brown recluse, the former when indoors and the latter outdoors. I've not spotted either in months honestly, but I never stop being wary. As far as CA natives being super freaked out about it...meh? I don't blame you. Fiddler spiders are scary looking and after seeing some of the wounds online, it's quite the eye opener. I have never personally met someone in either GA or AR that had been bitten by either of these spiders, so if you lean towards the uncharitable side of things, I have a somewhat irrational fear caused by reading things in HTML docs downloaded from a remote server in cyberspace. Edit: grammar
- ppseafield 8y ago
  Both the widow and the recluse are quite timid. Widow bites are generally not dangerous unless you're elderly, very young, or immunocompromised. They'll swell and be red for a while, but it's not life-threatening. Get near a widow, poke it, and it cowers in fear. The recluse's bite isn't itself dangerous - it's the necrotic bacteria that they carry that can get into your bite, which IIRC happens in about 20-25% of bites. If they bite at all - they're more likely to run away terrified than bite, but it's definitely something to be worried about. However, if you find them, do not kill them because they are cannibals. If other recluses smell a dead one, they'll come to eat it. A recluse infestation is a very difficult job for exterminators for this reason. I was more worried about the (biting!) gnats in GA. And the snakes. And the mosquitoes.
  - kryogen1c 8y ago
    How interesting! Ive known several people with brown recluse bites and I always assumed the (rather unpalatable) necrosis was from the venom, not some cofactor like bacteria. Upon reflection, it makes total sense. The presentations they had would be identical to serious infection, ie visible red marks on the skin tracing blood vessels and following the blood flow.
    - rplst8 8y ago
      I thought they had a hemotoxin in their venom like a viper that contains enzymes that break down red blood cells.
    - rplst8 8y ago
      Yeah it does... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loxoscelism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loxoscelism Sphingomyelinase D
  - pvaldes 8y ago
    A solitary male spider will run and take cover, but a mother will stand their position and will not hesitate to bite to defend its eggsac or spiderlings.
alsetmusic 8y ago
My sis-in-law had a necrotic bite from a brown recluse that nearly required surgery to stop the decay. This was in the Midwest. One of the happiest points of moving to CA is not finding them on my pillow. Creepy little creatures. I haven’t met anyone in 16y of life in CA that has heard of them.
- skummetmaelk 8y ago
  > One of the happiest points of moving to CA is not finding them on my pillow. Christ this thread is seriously nightmare fuel for someone who grew up in a country where literally no dangerous wildlife exists. I cannot imagine dealing with deadly animals on my pillow.
  - amdavidson 8y ago
    Where is the place with no dangerous wildlife?
    - papyrus23 8y ago
      The UK?
      - cgriswald 8y ago
        What about the Hounds of the Baskervilles?
        sandbags 8y ago
        Uncommon although might run into a speckled band here or there.
      - mrob 8y ago
        We have bees and wasps, which cause several deaths per year: "Estimates of the prevalence of anaphylaxis vary widely. In 2000, it was estimated that 25% of all UK deaths from anaphylaxis were due to reactions to hymenoptera stings. Every year in the UK there are 2–9 deaths due to anaphylaxis from bee or wasp stings." https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta246/documents/venom-anaphylaxis-immunotherapy-pharmalgen-final-scope2 https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta246/documents/venom-anaph...
insickness 8y ago
TL;DR: There are no populations of brown recluse spiders living in California.
rv-de 8y ago
> How hard is that Arkansas guy laughing who was sleeping on top of 6 brown recluses? I get the point and I second the sentiment and intent of the article. But then again that Arkansas guy must be very brave nonetheless when he isn't worried about six brown recluses living next to him while sleeping - considering that the spider definitely is venomous and a bite can trigger necrosis.
- black6 8y ago
  I was born and raised in Arkansas, and I still live in deep brown recluse territory. It's a "out of sight, out of mind" deal with the 8-legged friends. Subconsciously you know they're around -- I could find several in my garage if I wanted to, and probably some in the closets of my house -- but they're reclusive by nature, hence the name, and tend to stay out of the way. My uncle got bit on the arm by one while bringing some firewood inside one winter. A course of oral and local antibiotics from a veterinarian friend and all he had to show after a week was a small scar.
- nfritsche 8y ago
  We don't laugh that hard, I have been bit twice, and both left sizable scars. Although, if you know you have been bit and get treatment within in a day or two it shouldn't be that bad. --Arkansan
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    It is better now that we have running water and don't have to use the outhouse. That was a bad scene for brown recluse bites, in particular with respect to the typical bite location.
    - cgriswald 8y ago
      As a kid, we once visited a cabin and my mom sat down on the toilet and was surprised by a spider. Ever since then, I always check for spiders under the seat before I'll sit. If I had had to use an outhouse, I probably would have squated over the seat like they squat in some countries...
aaron695 8y ago
No real evidence it's dangerous anyway, other than it scratches you? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-recluse/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-recluse/
Mtinie 8y ago
As a native-born Californian, I’m glad to hear it. As a long-term, transplanted resident of Virginia, however, I’m keenly aware of the statistically small, but non-zero chance of running afoul with a (suspected) brown recluse. In 2014 I spent six days in the hospital after being being bitten on the ankle. Extensive courses of I.V. antibiotics were used to combat the necrotizing aspects of the venom. Along with a number of different topical anti-bactrials. Unfortunately, because I did not capture the spider which bit me, it was impossible to definitively point to Loxosceles as the culprit, thus complicating treatment. Recluse spider bites can be (relatively) painless, initially, and it could have happened while I was out hiking in the woods and stopped for a rest, or earlier, while at my home.
- mabbo 8y ago
  Not that I don't believe you (the word 'necrotizing' sends shivers up my spine) but since you didn't catch the spider itself, are there any other species of spider that may have been the biter?
  - atwebb 8y ago
    My guess would be a black widow.
    - aidenn0 8y ago
      In Virginia? I never saw one in 17 years. Now that was all in Piedmont and Tidewater; perhaps the valley has them, but I doubt it.
      - jayashe 8y ago
        saw one while working at a swimming pool in nova a few years back
  - Mtinie 8y ago
    Anything is possible, but here's the rationale the doctors who were treating me used to reach their conclusion: In Virginia there are only two known populations of venomous spiders, the black widow and the brown recluse. A black widow bite was ruled out because I did not exhibit any of the "typical" symptoms that they'd had experience with. I didn't have any pain outside of the bit marks (until later when my lymphatic system started to show signs of blood poisoning and an ache set in). From what I understand black widow bites start off as a "bee sting" type pain and then progress to abdominal pain and full-body muscle spasms. But as you alluded to, without a specimen, it was an educated guess on their part based on my memory of where I'd been during the week prior to the bite.
pvaldes 8y ago
> wood louse spiders (Dysdera crocota) Small typo. Is Dysdera crocata, not crocota. I used to play with those things annoying it with a little stick in a mix of fear and admiration. Children love predators so It was like finding a lion under a rock. A terrific brick-red and cream animal with impressive extra big fangs. Very "pokemonesque".
oxymoran 8y ago
I read a similar article to this a while back about lack of Brown Recluse populations in Michigan despite a healthy fear and misreporting of sightings.
- pgm8705 8y ago
  As a Michigan resident and someone with severe arachnophobia, I'd like to read this article.
howard941 8y ago
What happens when you mix a brown recluse and a black widow? You get a brown widow. (Not really). These http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/URBAN/SPIDERS/brown_widow_spider.htm http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/URBAN/SPIDERS/brown_wido... things are all over SW Florida insofar as I can tell from the egg sacs littering my lanai. There's more to say about them - but not now, I feel bad about passive/aggressive threadjacking. I'll just leave that link here for my fellow Floriduhuns.
- Chazprime 8y ago
  Afraid to use the lanai, Blanche? (sincerest apologies, I just couldn't resist) :D
- mrfusion 8y ago
  You’re seeing those spikey looking egg sacs? I’d address that somehow. That’s terrifying.
  - howard941 8y ago
    Yup. About 3/4" in diameter. They look like friendly little puffballs with soft spikes.
- mryingster 8y ago
  I live in So California, and people around here always talk about black widows, and are always surprised to learn of the existence of brown widows. I find this odd because I never see black widows around my house, but there are easily a dozen brown widows coming out at night around the base of the outside of my house. Pointy egg-sacks everywhere...
comesee 8y ago
The media cynicism in this article is problematic. The implication that the media spreads FUD about brown recluses in an effort to make more money sounds an awful lot like the things Trump says. I highly doubt there is a conspiracy to lie about brown recluses by the media, for any reason.
- josephpmay 8y ago
  I think it’s less suggesting a conspiracy and more suggesting media hysteria and lack of fact checking. It relates to the Gell-Mann: a lot of the media, and especially local TV news, is really terrible and careless about their coverage of technical subjects
- Brockenstein 8y ago
  With something like this, brown recluses in California. Where a lot of people believe it, because it's a "known fact". Well local media is populated by a lot of those people. They're probably not knowingly lying or creating a conspiracy. Just talking about something "everybody knows", and it just happens that that fact is mostly wrong. There isn't a problem with saying the media is wrong, misinformed, or lying, if you have hard evidence to support that claim. Trump's problem is he just claims any negative news are malicious lies, and rarely has anything to support his claims even a little bit. And that he, the undisciplined lair, is the only reputable source of information anyone should listen to, if they were smart anyway. Big difference.
  - comesee 8y ago
    Directly from the article: > I repeatedly have seen the media in their "quest to seek out the truth" write completely speculative stories about the existence of the brown recluse in California. Unfortunately, the truth is not nearly good enough to sell news and therefore, a speculative story is fabricated based upon faulty assumptions. He's strongly and cynically implying that the media doesn't sincerely seek the truth and runs stories based on whether the story sells. Promoting distruse in the media like this is dangerous for our society, we've see what happens when Trump does it.
Chazprime 8y ago
On the flip side, increased awareness of the little buggers is probably better for bite victims. The mother of one of my childhood friends in chilly New Hampshire went to the hospital with a rash a few years back and several visits emerged missing a chunk of her back about the size of a tennis ball. Having never seen one, the doctors never even considered she might have a dangerous spider bite.
- relaytheurgency 8y ago
  My father in law developed a nasty necrotic wound that everyone assumed was a brown recluse bite. But it kept getting worse and worse no matter what treatment options they tried. Turned out he had leishmaniasis. Of course no one considered that because they were blinded by the common explanation. Now, you could argue that maybe had the doctors known more about leishmaniasis he would have received a diagnosis faster. However, I imagine the situation played out about as well as one should hope. Certainly in Bolivia (where he picked up the disease) they should be more aware of the common causes of things than the uncommon. They should not be inspecting for brown recluse bites when there are rarely any just as we should not look at every necrotizing wound and investigate it as an uncommon case of leishmaniasis.
icco 8y ago
Growing up in California, I was always fearful of black widows. I had no idea the availability of antivenom was so great.
- kibwen 8y ago
  The article doesn't mention how long you have after the bite until the antivenom must be administered, so it's feasible that people living in remote or undeveloped areas would still want to be wary. I also imagine that children are more susceptible to the venom, so it still makes sense to teach them about the danger.
  - jorvi 8y ago
    Most people don’t need to be. What the article fails to mention is that Black Widow bites are only life-threatening to the ‘feeble’ (children, elderly, sick, etc). Otherwise you’re in for a very bad time, but the chance of dying is insignificant. “In the United States each year, about 2,200 people report being bitten .. each year 12 bites are considered serious but no deaths have been reported in 100 years .. .. Contrary to popular belief, most people who are bitten suffer no serious damage, let alone death .. .. Since the venom is not likely to be life-threatening, antivenom has been used as pain relief and not to save lives .. a study demonstrated that standardized pain medication, when combined with either antivenom or a placebo, had similar improvements in pain and resolution of symptoms.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus#Bite https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus#Bite
    - pvaldes 8y ago
      Both are very different creatures. Lets say broadly that Recluse has an acid attak, will melt tissue. Recluse will not kill you normally but can leave a scar. Black widows instead have an attack of, lets say, electric type. Will 'electrocute' you. Black widow will not kill you normally. But if you collaborate with the black widow work, you will kill yourself instead
- codingdave 8y ago
  Black widows are not aggressive. They won't bite you unless you crush them or threaten their eggs. You can even pick them up and play with them without a bite. (Not that I would recommend testing their limits). That being said, I do wear gloves when picking up firewood or moving stuff around my property, because if I grab one accidentally, that does crush them, which is exactly when they bite.
tw1010 8y ago
I like how aggressive the tone of this was "Although people are free to disagree, this opinion has come about after more than two decades of constant research".
robotkdick 8y ago
DRTS; (For those of you who didn't read, because... font too small) - Brown recluse spiders, in general, don't bite people unless you have less than 20/20 vision. In that case, you should run for the hills, esp. if you don't know how to zoom in the browser. A+ for content, but accessibility less so.
- mholmes680 8y ago
  I believe it would be FS;DR But, in case you are serious: CTRL++ to zoom in. CTRL+0 to reset to normal.
  - robotkdick 8y ago
    I know how to zoom, but many people don't. I normally wouldn't say anything, but that font is smaller than a baby recluse
projectramo 8y ago
Am I the only one who read the headline and thought this was about the personality scores given out to South-Asians as part of the Harvard admissions case?
- sctb 8y ago
  Actually that seems likely.
rrggrr 8y ago
Relevant link: https://abc7chicago.com/man-uses-blowtorch-to-kill-spiders-sets-parents-home-on-fire/4546565/ https://abc7chicago.com/man-uses-blowtorch-to-kill-spiders-s... The Fresno Fire Department said a man who was house-sitting for his parents set the home on fire after he used a blowtorch to kill black widows...
- stickfigure 8y ago
  "Mission accomplished"
justjash 8y ago
Yep, tons of spider in Missouri... I used to be somewhat freaked out about brown recluse spiders as a child but now as an adult I could care less. There is one with a web setup in my basement that I walk by every day, I just let it be since there is a pile of dead bugs under the web. I remember one kid in high school got bit and had a nasty necrotized spot on his ankle, other than that I have only heard of a few people who have been bit. As far as black widows go, I have only seen/caught a couple of them and never heard of anyone being bit by one.
- jermaustin1 8y ago
  I've had 2 bites from the brown recluses. The first was on my upper lip, sent me to the hospital, before the necrosis it swelled up closing off my mouth and nose so I couldn't breath. The "core" was extracted and I was left with minimal scarring, but I keep a mustache to cover it. The second bite was on my big toe. Woke up one morning with my toe swollen to the size of a small orange. When I went to the hospital for that one, some rotting had already started. My 350 pound father and two nurses held my leg down as the doctor cut into it. They were no match, I knocked them all to the ground when I felt the blade. I now have a dime-sized spot on my big toe. I still don't fear them, and recognize the good they do. I try to avoid spiders now though ;).
  - okreallywtf 8y ago
    How do you know that it was a brown recluse? I'm not disputing, I'm just wondering if it was assumed based on the injury or if you were able to find the actual spider.
    - jermaustin1 8y ago
      Just going off what the doctors told me. A friend later told me that MRSA sometimes mimics the same symptoms, but both occurred during summer, and not around other kids or in a hospital setting.
      - BeetleB 8y ago
notacoward 8y ago
If people in the midwest are laughing, imagine how Australians feel.
- dwd 8y ago
  Bemused Redbacks can be fairly common but if you encourage daddy long legs and leave the house spiders alone you'll rarely find one. House spiders though can make you quite sick if you get bitten. Sydney funnel web spiders are dangerous and aggressive - enough said. White-tailed spiders that also get blamed for necrotic lesions but is likely bacterial are fast and tend to wander. They'll sidestep a shoe and jump at you before disappearing. I've spent hours upending a room after losing sight of one. Most people though are more scared of huntsman spiders and they can get pretty big and move fast. There's a certain type that are thicker in body and will come at you. You think you have it pinned under the broom head and the next second it's racing up the handle jumping at you.
joeberon 8y ago
Just saying that for many people "squish and ask questions later" is unrelated to how dangerous they are
chasd00 8y ago
Growing up in TX my sisters and I were sufficiently scared to death of "fiddlebacks". I've never known anyone to be bitten but my wife got a nasty bite from something about a week ago. Big red swollen spot on her ankle and it immediately made me think of the Brown Recluse bite stories i was told as a kid. I asked my wife to keep an eye on it and if it looked any worse in 24 hours we're going to the doc. Fortunately, the swelling went down and things turned out fine.
- ianamartin 8y ago
  Same here. I grew up on a farm in TX. Brown recluses and black widows were always things to look out for doing work out in the barn.
- kurthr 8y ago
  I was likely bitten on the ankle by one when I was 12 after walking around in ivy. It's hard to tell exactly what it was, but it swelled up like half a baseball, the doctor removed a chunk of skin/flesh an inch across (it mostly fell off) and I couldn't walk for a couple of weeks. I hated spiders for years after that... they don't bug me much now, but windows and recluses will spread (if fed) and can be dangeous. It's best to keep them out of your house and garage area. Seen lots of widows, but never a recluse in California.
okmokmz 8y ago
I've had people tell me that brown recluse don't live in Washington, and that it's a similar "myth", but one of my friends got bit by one in high school and ended up with a hole in his leg the size of a marble
jackallis 8y ago
i love how sassy this articles is -- mostly borne out of anger on how stupid people are.
bougiefever 8y ago
Did people here read the whole thing? This is some good reading! "The whole state would be evacuated" if even one live spider, as opposed to an "ex-spider" were found. That is good stuff! This made my day.
whiddershins 8y ago
There’s this concept that any time you see a new story where the topic is your area of expertise, it’s baffling how completely inaccurate the story is. And then we all keep reading stories about areas in which we aren’t experts, and it doesn’t occur to us that are likely equally misleading. Because if we all factored that in, we wouldn’t believe any news. And I guess we feel better thinking we know what’s going on, rather than acknowledging we are in the dark.
- VikingCoder 8y ago
  I really wish I could tell some system who I designate as authorities for given subjects. And then I could see the news annotated by the authorities I chose. Or by the people they acknowledge have authority over those subjects. Linus Torvalds is an expert on Linux. John Carmack is an expert on computer graphics. Tiger Woods is an expert on Golf. Al Gore is an expert on Climate Change. I don't care what Tiger Woods thinks about computer graphics. I don't care what Linus Torvalds thinks about Golf. I don't care what John Carmack thinks about Climate Change. But if those people that I've identified acknowledge that other people or groups get it "mostly right," and those people have annotated some news article, I desperately want to see their commentary! And I'd also be curious to learn who I think anti-experts are. When the people I think are authorities endorse an article on that subject, I want to see who condemns that article. And I want to read their commentary for myself. If I think they're loopy, I can flag them as anti-authorities. And yes, when there's dispute among the people I consider authorities on a given topic, I'll be especially interested to read the debate. I want to say that I probably trust people who work at the Washington Post to cover world news. I probably trust people at MIT, Cornell, Stanford to cover science. Eventually I'll discover which economic school most agrees with my take. Yes, this may re-enforce the bubble that I'm in. But like I said, I really do want to read the BEST arguments from people who disagree with my school of experts, too. Flame wars are a giant waste of time. I want to flag a comment, "I disagree, but this is the most persuasive point someone has made." Highlight THOSE comments. Even better are the comments where I can say, "You really turned me around on this one." I want to flag a comment from either side as, "Hey, can people from both sides please comment on this? This seems like it's interesting." I want to have Line Item Veto. To comment on specific parts of an article, highlighting them, to say they are for sure true, or they're for sure false, etc. Let the media have the chance to revise and correct their article. Hell, even fixing spelling and grammar mistakes is valuable. Note that I desperately want this same kind of annotation for research papers on arXiv, etc. I think I'd want it to work something like Google SideWiki, or maybe Disqus? Won't someone please implement this? The democracy of upvotes and downvotes on Reddit and Hacker News is a signal, but it can be gamed by bots, and NOT ALL OPINIONS ARE EQUAL. I don't want the system to TELL me who experts are. Maybe it can suggest experts. But it should damn well include Alex Jones (even though I detest him), and Fox News (even though I think they're the most incorrect major news source). If Jon Stewart or Dan Rather have something to say about an article?! You can bet your ass I want to read it! Hell, even linking me to a video of when Stephen Colbert talked about this topic last night adds some value. I read a blog post from a pediatrician once that I thought was excellent. He lamented roughly, "If you don't trust me to be an authority on vaccines for your child, then I don't know what kind of relationship you think we have." I agree with that. It's not that I think my pediatrician is RIGHT. It's that I grant that they have more authority on the subject than I do, and my world view is to trust scientific authority / consensus. Even though that's ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEE OF CORRECTNESS. I get that. But of the ways to try to understand the world, I prefer to view the world through the lens of scientists. And since we have divisions of labor, and I do not have enough time to become an expert myself, I want help in understanding how the experts I place trust in, how they view the world, and news, etc.
nimbius 8y ago
Working in a midwest auto repair shop, we get our share of spiders and such. Brown recluse spiders are just that, reclusive. Ive seen them take up residence in old tire piles mostly. Ive rarely seen a recluse, but our shop bathroom has a small window where a particularly large hobo spider has set up shop. We named him Biggie because, well, its a huge spider that just sits on a web all day munching bugs and judging your poor dietary standard. We used to assign cancelled tickets to biggie. at some point, biggie had a small workstation and even an entry in our timekeeping software (for testing.) So at some point he was just gone. We assumed he moved onto some nicer shop with tastier bugs, but as it turns out, biggie met his demise at the hands of our new tenant Goober, a chubby possum who made it through the window on a cold night and managed to scare the piss out of one of our front office sales folk. This was completely unacceptable, shouting at a colleague at work is tantamount to casual harassment. So, we did what any coworkers did. We took Goober out to eat by luring him back outside with grapes and raisins. After he was out for the day, we built him a little workstation, fashioned some personal protection equipment, and even made goobers toolbox. It holds all our weird porsche/BMW bolts and nuts that, as far as we can tell, are in hard enough spots on the vehicles that only a German possum could install.
- ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
  This made my morning. Thank you.
  - kinleyd 8y ago
    Mine too. Thank you.
- asciimo 8y ago
  Thank you for being an agent of harmony.
k1ns 8y ago
I live in Brown Recluse country. For a little over a year, I lived in an apartment absolutely infested with Brown Recluse spiders. The entire block of apartments (i.e. units sharing one roof) had the problem. AFAIK, we were the only block at the complex with the issue. Early on in living there I captured several of the spiders and had them identified. I was terrified, to say the least. When I say infestation, I mean it literally. It was very unusual to make it to bedtime without killing at least one Brown Recluse. The most we ever killed in one night was 15. We would wake up all hours of the night, turn on our phone flashlights, and scan the room for any lurking on the ceiling or walls. Usually, the midnight scans would bear fruit. To this day I wake up in the middle of the night and reach for my phone before remembering that I'm no longer in that situation. One year and one week after moving into the apartment, I was bitten. One of the poor creatures found its way under my covers and into my shirt while I was sleeping. I rolled over on top of it and it bit me. The burn/itching actually woke me up shortly after and I was able to recover the spider from inside my shirt. I absolutely panicked, rounded up my entire family to drive me to the ER at 3 AM (because surely I was going to go into some kind of shock or other state of impairment) and even called the doctor on the way. Halfway to the ER, the doctor called back. He told me not to panic, and that there was actually nothing they could do about it right this minute. He told me to go home, go to sleep, and watch the bite for any signs of infection/necrosis. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the best advice I've ever heard regarding Brown Recluses. All in all, the bite amounted to little more than a massive mosquito bite. My body did have an allergic reaction (broke out in a rash head to toe) but it was honestly nothing like the horror stories. We moved two months later, but I'll never let myself forget the overreaction I presented and how silly it all was. I actually started to feel that I was getting to know them. Brown Recluses are exactly that: reclusive. They want nothing to do with us. They are magnificent hunters and terrible climbers (this is how they end up in your bed: they fall). They tend to stick to the edges of the room and are the only spider I've ever seen with a distinct "stalk" instead of a twitchy walk. They're honestly beautiful to watch (as I used to often). If you do have a Brown Recluse problem, don't panic. It took me over a year to get bitten while living in an actual nest of them and even then it was a freak accident. Buy yourself some of those rectangular glue traps and place them along your walls, behind furniture, and in the back of closets. Brown Recluses can be dangerous to children under the age of 7 and the elderly (which is why we moved promptly) so don't ignore them entirely. Learn to respect them for what they are just like anything else.
okreallywtf 8y ago
In a similar vein, supposedly a lot of "spider bites" are not spider bites (according to source): https://www.livescience.com/37974-he-surprising-cause-of-most-spider-bites.html https://www.livescience.com/37974-he-surprising-cause-of-mos... I've known people to theorize that many small welts are caused by spider bites even though they didn't see the spider or know when they got bitten.
- dwyerm 8y ago
  If clicking something with a clickbaity name isn't your thing, I can save you a click. The cause is "more likely to be bites or stings from other arthropods such as fleas, skin reactions to chemicals or infections."
  - bradknowles 8y ago
    Bedbugs?
Pxtl 8y ago
What happens is occasionally you get news about some poor soul with multiple amputations because of necrotic tissue, and people assume "must've been a brown recluse" because it's a suitable scapegoat. And of course, the fear of the brown recluse is that they don't really look like anything. We all think we can recognize a black widow, but a brown recluse just looks like a typical house spider. That said, I'm suspicious a bit about comments how spiders never bite you. Last year suddenly the yellow sac spiders in the neighborhood got aggressive - I have no idea why, they're normally harmless house spiders all over my area, but I and a friend of mine both got bit by them completely out of the blue without warning. Spider just walked on and chomped. He told me he'd heard from others similar stories recently... I assumed it was some kind of distemper infection or something seasonal since normally they're harmless. It stung like hell and left my arm sore for a week.
davidw 8y ago
Oddly enough, even here in Oregon there's a persistent myth that we have those things.
brockers 8y ago
There are literally two in my office right now under my bookshelf. If you have them, you don't find one of these, you find dozens.
cantankerous 8y ago
I've lived in Portland OR, Mid MO, and the Kansas City area. In mid-Missouri, the brown recluse is the standard house spider. Pretty much every spider in my house there was a brown recluse. I had a weird bruise-y/necrotic bite on my hip that I assumed came from one that got in bed with me. It healed up fine without any medical intervention even though it lingered for awhile. I suspect a lot of people get bitten over the span of their lives but the bites aren't really noticeable. Spiders get in your bed or get into your clothes sometimes. It takes a bit of work/luck to get a recluse bite. They're not aggressive and they're not looking for trouble. The West Coast, in my experience, has very little on the Midwest when it comes to spiders and bugs. In Oregon I was blown away by the lack of bugs. I could leave my doors and windows open at night and nothing seemed to come in. Unreal! The only major thing Portland seemed to have on the middle states is slugs. Waking up in the morning to find slug trails in my kitchen and in the dog bowl was a weird experience. Live and learn!
- aidenn0 8y ago
  I live in the Santa Barbara area, and bugs are way less, probably because of how dry it is compared to the midwest. In mid MO I've seen ticks large enough to keep as pets! However, we do have a lot of black widows. They aren't super aggressive towards humans, but they tend to go in places that you only sometimes visit (the back of that one drawer in your toolchest you don't use very often, woodpiles, Christmas decorations in attic or garage, etc.) I put on gloves before going to any of those locations because I'm told even though it's non-fatal to healthy adults, it's supposed to be excruciatingly painful.
  - lifeformed 8y ago
    Don't forget to check if they're in your gloves too!
    - macintux 8y ago
      Yep, I put my hand into a glove once only to find a spider there. Despite my general affection for spiders, that was not a happy moment.
axiomdata316 8y ago
This is an odd claim. I live in Riverside where this article was written and found two brown recluse spiders in the last year. One outside by the front door and the second inside my bedroom. The tell tale identifier is the small violin shape in its back. They may not be common in California but they're common in my house in Riverside California just down the road from UCR.
- bradford 8y ago
  You sure it's not one of the other violin species that were discussed in the article (loxosceles deserta, for example)?
jxramos 8y ago
Quite liked this jab """I repeatedly have seen the media in their "quest to seek out the truth" write completely speculative stories about the existence of the brown recluse in California. Unfortunately, the truth is not nearly good enough to sell news and therefore, a speculative story is fabricated based upon faulty assumptions."""
goda90 8y ago
I briefly lived in Chile, where the Chilean recluse is considerably more venomous than the brown recluse. I met one man who was bitten by one on a neck vein. The damage to his heart now requires life long medication. Because of that, I'm going to continue to be afraid of brown recluses, despite living several degrees north of their known range in the US.
haylcron 8y ago
Media hysteria is a very real danger to science and logic in general. Their concern is more about driving traffic to sites or getting viewers to increase ad revenue, not necessarily telling you the truth if it isn't particularly sexy. I see parallels with the onslaught against a lot of initiatives in the crop science sector. Playing to the emotions of people rather than the facts is a very dangerous spiral for us to fall into.
iamthepieman 8y ago
my Uncle got bit by a spider. Don't know if it was a recluse. He was getting dressed in the morning. Put his work pants on that were draped over a chair, felt a sting on his thigh and a spider fell on the floor when he ripped off the pant and shook them out. He had a hands width depression that was about an inch deep. This was after it was healed and completely scarred over. I don't know how big it was while healing. This was in Arkansas though so smack dab in the middle of the territory on that map[0] Helping some friends on a farm in West Virginia, their greenhouses would fill up with black widows in the early spring before they got around to cleaning them out for the first planting. 1000s of them in each greenhouse. Quickly learned that they are entirely harmless. [0]http://spiders.ucr.edu/images/colorloxmap.gif http://spiders.ucr.edu/images/colorloxmap.gif
S_A_P 8y ago
I live in Texas. There are brown recluse here. I don't really fear a spider since it doesn't seem like they are all that aggressive to people. The worst part of spiders to me are when I walk through a web. Ive had a bad spider bite that caused great swelling and some necrosis, but I don't know it was a brown recluse. I personally have a nasty fear of wasps, which I cannot rationally explain other than I think they look mean and evil and can fly at you. Here in Houston, we have 2 types that are especially aggressive. The worst is the yellow jacket, since they are great at building a hive in the ground and their small size means you don't see them until its too late in many cases. The other is the Mahogany/Red paper wasp. These guys are usually ok most of the year, but as summer turns to fall, they get a bit aggressive and start wanting your food. They are also relatively large and make pretty big nests. Even through they are great mosquito killers, I won't let a nest live near a place I frequent. We also have cicada killer wasps, which are very large and very inquisitive. That combination usually has me spazing out at least once a year as they dive bomb me...
- the_af 8y ago
  Same here: I fear wasps more than spiders. Some spiders look sort of cute, and even the ugly ones don't seem aggressive, but all types of wasps look aggressive to me, all the time. It doesn't help that I've been stung by wasps more than once, but never by spiders.
  - bradknowles 8y ago
    Yeah, wasps are much worse for me than spiders. But scorpions are even worse than wasps. They don't have the sound of their wings beating or the actual capability of flight, but they are much more alien looking -- and acting.
    - the_af 8y ago
      Scorpions do look menacing, but are they aggressive? The thing with wasps for me was that both times I was stung, I sort of walked near a nest but wasn't really doing anything to disturb them. Or one time I was having dessert at a restaurant and a bunch of yellowjackets flew through the open window and ganged up on me and wanted my dessert and my coke (in this case they weren't aggressive but attracted to the sweet smells/tastes, I know, but still scary). However, every time I've seen scorpions, they were doing their thing, away from me, and I got the idea that unless I actually stepped on them, they'd leave me alone.
njarboe 8y ago
The Myth of the Myth of the Brown Recluse I have lived in California for 25 years and have never heard about the Brown Recluse living here. I guess I don't watch enough local news, but I think that Rick Vetter, being in the Department of Entomology at UC Riverside, is going to have an extreme over exposure to people who think the Brown Recluse is a problem. The random people who send him spiders are worried about the Brown Recluse, but 500 in say 30 years is not very many. If 1 in 500,000 people are super worried about these spiders in California, then he might interact with most of them. The essay is of course a bit tongue-in-cheek, but this problem of the Myth of the Brown Recluse is probably only experience by a small number of people.
- larkeith 8y ago
  Anecdata: I live in Oregon, and have always been mildly concerned about visiting California because I thought brown recluses lived there. I genuinely have no idea where I got the idea.
  - lotyrin 8y ago
    Further: I used to live in Oregon and was given the impression that I might encounter them there (in Oregon).
smpetrey 8y ago
> Only a handful of specimens (less than 10) have ever been collected in California and usually there is some connection between the spider and a recent move or shipment from the Midwest. There is a great "awareness" of brown recluse spiders in California mostly through a misguided media barrage which is fed by a fear of the unknown and unfamiliar. I repeatedly have seen the media in their "quest to seek out the truth" write completely speculative stories about the existence of the brown recluse in California. Unfortunately, the truth is not nearly good enough to sell news and therefore, a speculative story is fabricated based upon faulty assumptions.
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BenjiWiebe 8y ago
Yes I'm here in Kansas laughing. I've had a brown recluse walk down my arm out of my sleeve, and didn't get bit. Just brushed it off and stepped on it. Also my cousin has had several confirmed brown recluse bites. Yes they were painful disgusting etc etc, but didn't kill her or cause any life changing damage...

183 points by josephpmay 8y ago

As someone living right in recluse territory, I'm constantly terrified when going into a closet to get clothes...etc, even though I see black widows all the time. Any time you're at the gas pump or in your garage, look around and you can probably find one.

fastball 8y ago
Yeah, I was hoping that this article would talk about how Brown Recluse aren't actually dangerous (as I live in Texas), but instead it talked about California, and it appears Brown Recluse are still quite dangerous. I see them a lot. Could we change the title to "Myth of the Brown Recluse in California" or something?
- macintux 8y ago
  > I was hoping that this article would talk about how Brown Recluse aren't actually dangerous It does to some degree, with anecdotes of interactions with no ill effects. Clearly it can cause severe health issues, but the vast majority if the time it doesn't.
  - saalweachter 8y ago
    It puts it more in the range of plane crashes. They're not good, but they are rare, even if you're flying on a plane regularly. And then you have California, which is terrified of plane crashes, either that they might be in one or that they're in the middle of one right now, even though they never fly and have no need or intention of ever flying.

Multicomp 8y ago

In GA, I am wary for the black widow and the brown recluse, the former when indoors and the latter outdoors. I've not spotted either in months honestly, but I never stop being wary. As far as CA natives being super freaked out about it...meh? I don't blame you. Fiddler spiders are scary looking and after seeing some of the wounds online, it's quite the eye opener. I have never personally met someone in either GA or AR that had been bitten by either of these spiders, so if you lean towards the uncharitable side of things, I have a somewhat irrational fear caused by reading things in HTML docs downloaded from a remote server in cyberspace. Edit: grammar

ppseafield 8y ago
Both the widow and the recluse are quite timid. Widow bites are generally not dangerous unless you're elderly, very young, or immunocompromised. They'll swell and be red for a while, but it's not life-threatening. Get near a widow, poke it, and it cowers in fear. The recluse's bite isn't itself dangerous - it's the necrotic bacteria that they carry that can get into your bite, which IIRC happens in about 20-25% of bites. If they bite at all - they're more likely to run away terrified than bite, but it's definitely something to be worried about. However, if you find them, do not kill them because they are cannibals. If other recluses smell a dead one, they'll come to eat it. A recluse infestation is a very difficult job for exterminators for this reason. I was more worried about the (biting!) gnats in GA. And the snakes. And the mosquitoes.
- kryogen1c 8y ago
  How interesting! Ive known several people with brown recluse bites and I always assumed the (rather unpalatable) necrosis was from the venom, not some cofactor like bacteria. Upon reflection, it makes total sense. The presentations they had would be identical to serious infection, ie visible red marks on the skin tracing blood vessels and following the blood flow.
  - rplst8 8y ago
    I thought they had a hemotoxin in their venom like a viper that contains enzymes that break down red blood cells.
  - rplst8 8y ago
    Yeah it does... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loxoscelism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loxoscelism Sphingomyelinase D
- pvaldes 8y ago
  A solitary male spider will run and take cover, but a mother will stand their position and will not hesitate to bite to defend its eggsac or spiderlings.

alsetmusic 8y ago

My sis-in-law had a necrotic bite from a brown recluse that nearly required surgery to stop the decay. This was in the Midwest. One of the happiest points of moving to CA is not finding them on my pillow. Creepy little creatures. I haven’t met anyone in 16y of life in CA that has heard of them.

skummetmaelk 8y ago
> One of the happiest points of moving to CA is not finding them on my pillow. Christ this thread is seriously nightmare fuel for someone who grew up in a country where literally no dangerous wildlife exists. I cannot imagine dealing with deadly animals on my pillow.
- amdavidson 8y ago
  Where is the place with no dangerous wildlife?
  - papyrus23 8y ago
    The UK?
    - cgriswald 8y ago
      What about the Hounds of the Baskervilles?
      - sandbags 8y ago
        Uncommon although might run into a speckled band here or there.
    - mrob 8y ago
      We have bees and wasps, which cause several deaths per year: "Estimates of the prevalence of anaphylaxis vary widely. In 2000, it was estimated that 25% of all UK deaths from anaphylaxis were due to reactions to hymenoptera stings. Every year in the UK there are 2–9 deaths due to anaphylaxis from bee or wasp stings." https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta246/documents/venom-anaphylaxis-immunotherapy-pharmalgen-final-scope2 https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta246/documents/venom-anaph...

insickness 8y ago

TL;DR: There are no populations of brown recluse spiders living in California.

rv-de 8y ago

> How hard is that Arkansas guy laughing who was sleeping on top of 6 brown recluses? I get the point and I second the sentiment and intent of the article. But then again that Arkansas guy must be very brave nonetheless when he isn't worried about six brown recluses living next to him while sleeping - considering that the spider definitely is venomous and a bite can trigger necrosis.

black6 8y ago
I was born and raised in Arkansas, and I still live in deep brown recluse territory. It's a "out of sight, out of mind" deal with the 8-legged friends. Subconsciously you know they're around -- I could find several in my garage if I wanted to, and probably some in the closets of my house -- but they're reclusive by nature, hence the name, and tend to stay out of the way. My uncle got bit on the arm by one while bringing some firewood inside one winter. A course of oral and local antibiotics from a veterinarian friend and all he had to show after a week was a small scar.
nfritsche 8y ago
We don't laugh that hard, I have been bit twice, and both left sizable scars. Although, if you know you have been bit and get treatment within in a day or two it shouldn't be that bad. --Arkansan
- jessaustin 8y ago
  It is better now that we have running water and don't have to use the outhouse. That was a bad scene for brown recluse bites, in particular with respect to the typical bite location.
  - cgriswald 8y ago
    As a kid, we once visited a cabin and my mom sat down on the toilet and was surprised by a spider. Ever since then, I always check for spiders under the seat before I'll sit. If I had had to use an outhouse, I probably would have squated over the seat like they squat in some countries...

aaron695 8y ago

No real evidence it's dangerous anyway, other than it scratches you? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-recluse/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-recluse/

Mtinie 8y ago

As a native-born Californian, I’m glad to hear it. As a long-term, transplanted resident of Virginia, however, I’m keenly aware of the statistically small, but non-zero chance of running afoul with a (suspected) brown recluse. In 2014 I spent six days in the hospital after being being bitten on the ankle. Extensive courses of I.V. antibiotics were used to combat the necrotizing aspects of the venom. Along with a number of different topical anti-bactrials. Unfortunately, because I did not capture the spider which bit me, it was impossible to definitively point to Loxosceles as the culprit, thus complicating treatment. Recluse spider bites can be (relatively) painless, initially, and it could have happened while I was out hiking in the woods and stopped for a rest, or earlier, while at my home.

mabbo 8y ago
Not that I don't believe you (the word 'necrotizing' sends shivers up my spine) but since you didn't catch the spider itself, are there any other species of spider that may have been the biter?
- atwebb 8y ago
  My guess would be a black widow.
  - aidenn0 8y ago
    In Virginia? I never saw one in 17 years. Now that was all in Piedmont and Tidewater; perhaps the valley has them, but I doubt it.
    - jayashe 8y ago
      saw one while working at a swimming pool in nova a few years back
- Mtinie 8y ago
  Anything is possible, but here's the rationale the doctors who were treating me used to reach their conclusion: In Virginia there are only two known populations of venomous spiders, the black widow and the brown recluse. A black widow bite was ruled out because I did not exhibit any of the "typical" symptoms that they'd had experience with. I didn't have any pain outside of the bit marks (until later when my lymphatic system started to show signs of blood poisoning and an ache set in). From what I understand black widow bites start off as a "bee sting" type pain and then progress to abdominal pain and full-body muscle spasms. But as you alluded to, without a specimen, it was an educated guess on their part based on my memory of where I'd been during the week prior to the bite.

pvaldes 8y ago

> wood louse spiders (Dysdera crocota) Small typo. Is Dysdera crocata, not crocota. I used to play with those things annoying it with a little stick in a mix of fear and admiration. Children love predators so It was like finding a lion under a rock. A terrific brick-red and cream animal with impressive extra big fangs. Very "pokemonesque".

oxymoran 8y ago

I read a similar article to this a while back about lack of Brown Recluse populations in Michigan despite a healthy fear and misreporting of sightings.

pgm8705 8y ago
As a Michigan resident and someone with severe arachnophobia, I'd like to read this article.

howard941 8y ago

What happens when you mix a brown recluse and a black widow? You get a brown widow. (Not really). These http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/URBAN/SPIDERS/brown_widow_spider.htm http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/URBAN/SPIDERS/brown_wido... things are all over SW Florida insofar as I can tell from the egg sacs littering my lanai. There's more to say about them - but not now, I feel bad about passive/aggressive threadjacking. I'll just leave that link here for my fellow Floriduhuns.

Chazprime 8y ago
Afraid to use the lanai, Blanche? (sincerest apologies, I just couldn't resist) :D
mrfusion 8y ago
You’re seeing those spikey looking egg sacs? I’d address that somehow. That’s terrifying.
- howard941 8y ago
  Yup. About 3/4" in diameter. They look like friendly little puffballs with soft spikes.
mryingster 8y ago
I live in So California, and people around here always talk about black widows, and are always surprised to learn of the existence of brown widows. I find this odd because I never see black widows around my house, but there are easily a dozen brown widows coming out at night around the base of the outside of my house. Pointy egg-sacks everywhere...

comesee 8y ago

The media cynicism in this article is problematic. The implication that the media spreads FUD about brown recluses in an effort to make more money sounds an awful lot like the things Trump says. I highly doubt there is a conspiracy to lie about brown recluses by the media, for any reason.

josephpmay 8y ago
I think it’s less suggesting a conspiracy and more suggesting media hysteria and lack of fact checking. It relates to the Gell-Mann: a lot of the media, and especially local TV news, is really terrible and careless about their coverage of technical subjects
Brockenstein 8y ago
With something like this, brown recluses in California. Where a lot of people believe it, because it's a "known fact". Well local media is populated by a lot of those people. They're probably not knowingly lying or creating a conspiracy. Just talking about something "everybody knows", and it just happens that that fact is mostly wrong. There isn't a problem with saying the media is wrong, misinformed, or lying, if you have hard evidence to support that claim. Trump's problem is he just claims any negative news are malicious lies, and rarely has anything to support his claims even a little bit. And that he, the undisciplined lair, is the only reputable source of information anyone should listen to, if they were smart anyway. Big difference.
- comesee 8y ago
  Directly from the article: > I repeatedly have seen the media in their "quest to seek out the truth" write completely speculative stories about the existence of the brown recluse in California. Unfortunately, the truth is not nearly good enough to sell news and therefore, a speculative story is fabricated based upon faulty assumptions. He's strongly and cynically implying that the media doesn't sincerely seek the truth and runs stories based on whether the story sells. Promoting distruse in the media like this is dangerous for our society, we've see what happens when Trump does it.

Chazprime 8y ago

On the flip side, increased awareness of the little buggers is probably better for bite victims. The mother of one of my childhood friends in chilly New Hampshire went to the hospital with a rash a few years back and several visits emerged missing a chunk of her back about the size of a tennis ball. Having never seen one, the doctors never even considered she might have a dangerous spider bite.

relaytheurgency 8y ago
My father in law developed a nasty necrotic wound that everyone assumed was a brown recluse bite. But it kept getting worse and worse no matter what treatment options they tried. Turned out he had leishmaniasis. Of course no one considered that because they were blinded by the common explanation. Now, you could argue that maybe had the doctors known more about leishmaniasis he would have received a diagnosis faster. However, I imagine the situation played out about as well as one should hope. Certainly in Bolivia (where he picked up the disease) they should be more aware of the common causes of things than the uncommon. They should not be inspecting for brown recluse bites when there are rarely any just as we should not look at every necrotizing wound and investigate it as an uncommon case of leishmaniasis.

icco 8y ago

Growing up in California, I was always fearful of black widows. I had no idea the availability of antivenom was so great.

kibwen 8y ago
The article doesn't mention how long you have after the bite until the antivenom must be administered, so it's feasible that people living in remote or undeveloped areas would still want to be wary. I also imagine that children are more susceptible to the venom, so it still makes sense to teach them about the danger.
- jorvi 8y ago
  Most people don’t need to be. What the article fails to mention is that Black Widow bites are only life-threatening to the ‘feeble’ (children, elderly, sick, etc). Otherwise you’re in for a very bad time, but the chance of dying is insignificant. “In the United States each year, about 2,200 people report being bitten .. each year 12 bites are considered serious but no deaths have been reported in 100 years .. .. Contrary to popular belief, most people who are bitten suffer no serious damage, let alone death .. .. Since the venom is not likely to be life-threatening, antivenom has been used as pain relief and not to save lives .. a study demonstrated that standardized pain medication, when combined with either antivenom or a placebo, had similar improvements in pain and resolution of symptoms.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus#Bite https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus#Bite
  - pvaldes 8y ago
    Both are very different creatures. Lets say broadly that Recluse has an acid attak, will melt tissue. Recluse will not kill you normally but can leave a scar. Black widows instead have an attack of, lets say, electric type. Will 'electrocute' you. Black widow will not kill you normally. But if you collaborate with the black widow work, you will kill yourself instead
codingdave 8y ago
Black widows are not aggressive. They won't bite you unless you crush them or threaten their eggs. You can even pick them up and play with them without a bite. (Not that I would recommend testing their limits). That being said, I do wear gloves when picking up firewood or moving stuff around my property, because if I grab one accidentally, that does crush them, which is exactly when they bite.

tw1010 8y ago

I like how aggressive the tone of this was "Although people are free to disagree, this opinion has come about after more than two decades of constant research".

robotkdick 8y ago

DRTS; (For those of you who didn't read, because... font too small) - Brown recluse spiders, in general, don't bite people unless you have less than 20/20 vision. In that case, you should run for the hills, esp. if you don't know how to zoom in the browser. A+ for content, but accessibility less so.

mholmes680 8y ago
I believe it would be FS;DR But, in case you are serious: CTRL++ to zoom in. CTRL+0 to reset to normal.
- robotkdick 8y ago
  I know how to zoom, but many people don't. I normally wouldn't say anything, but that font is smaller than a baby recluse

projectramo 8y ago

Am I the only one who read the headline and thought this was about the personality scores given out to South-Asians as part of the Harvard admissions case?

sctb 8y ago
Actually that seems likely.

rrggrr 8y ago

Relevant link: https://abc7chicago.com/man-uses-blowtorch-to-kill-spiders-sets-parents-home-on-fire/4546565/ https://abc7chicago.com/man-uses-blowtorch-to-kill-spiders-s... The Fresno Fire Department said a man who was house-sitting for his parents set the home on fire after he used a blowtorch to kill black widows...

stickfigure 8y ago
"Mission accomplished"

justjash 8y ago

Yep, tons of spider in Missouri... I used to be somewhat freaked out about brown recluse spiders as a child but now as an adult I could care less. There is one with a web setup in my basement that I walk by every day, I just let it be since there is a pile of dead bugs under the web. I remember one kid in high school got bit and had a nasty necrotized spot on his ankle, other than that I have only heard of a few people who have been bit. As far as black widows go, I have only seen/caught a couple of them and never heard of anyone being bit by one.

jermaustin1 8y ago
I've had 2 bites from the brown recluses. The first was on my upper lip, sent me to the hospital, before the necrosis it swelled up closing off my mouth and nose so I couldn't breath. The "core" was extracted and I was left with minimal scarring, but I keep a mustache to cover it. The second bite was on my big toe. Woke up one morning with my toe swollen to the size of a small orange. When I went to the hospital for that one, some rotting had already started. My 350 pound father and two nurses held my leg down as the doctor cut into it. They were no match, I knocked them all to the ground when I felt the blade. I now have a dime-sized spot on my big toe. I still don't fear them, and recognize the good they do. I try to avoid spiders now though ;).
- okreallywtf 8y ago
  How do you know that it was a brown recluse? I'm not disputing, I'm just wondering if it was assumed based on the injury or if you were able to find the actual spider.
  - jermaustin1 8y ago
    Just going off what the doctors told me. A friend later told me that MRSA sometimes mimics the same symptoms, but both occurred during summer, and not around other kids or in a hospital setting.
    - BeetleB 8y ago

notacoward 8y ago

If people in the midwest are laughing, imagine how Australians feel.

dwd 8y ago
Bemused Redbacks can be fairly common but if you encourage daddy long legs and leave the house spiders alone you'll rarely find one. House spiders though can make you quite sick if you get bitten. Sydney funnel web spiders are dangerous and aggressive - enough said. White-tailed spiders that also get blamed for necrotic lesions but is likely bacterial are fast and tend to wander. They'll sidestep a shoe and jump at you before disappearing. I've spent hours upending a room after losing sight of one. Most people though are more scared of huntsman spiders and they can get pretty big and move fast. There's a certain type that are thicker in body and will come at you. You think you have it pinned under the broom head and the next second it's racing up the handle jumping at you.

joeberon 8y ago

Just saying that for many people "squish and ask questions later" is unrelated to how dangerous they are

chasd00 8y ago

Growing up in TX my sisters and I were sufficiently scared to death of "fiddlebacks". I've never known anyone to be bitten but my wife got a nasty bite from something about a week ago. Big red swollen spot on her ankle and it immediately made me think of the Brown Recluse bite stories i was told as a kid. I asked my wife to keep an eye on it and if it looked any worse in 24 hours we're going to the doc. Fortunately, the swelling went down and things turned out fine.

ianamartin 8y ago
Same here. I grew up on a farm in TX. Brown recluses and black widows were always things to look out for doing work out in the barn.
kurthr 8y ago
I was likely bitten on the ankle by one when I was 12 after walking around in ivy. It's hard to tell exactly what it was, but it swelled up like half a baseball, the doctor removed a chunk of skin/flesh an inch across (it mostly fell off) and I couldn't walk for a couple of weeks. I hated spiders for years after that... they don't bug me much now, but windows and recluses will spread (if fed) and can be dangeous. It's best to keep them out of your house and garage area. Seen lots of widows, but never a recluse in California.

okmokmz 8y ago

I've had people tell me that brown recluse don't live in Washington, and that it's a similar "myth", but one of my friends got bit by one in high school and ended up with a hole in his leg the size of a marble

jackallis 8y ago

i love how sassy this articles is -- mostly borne out of anger on how stupid people are.

bougiefever 8y ago

Did people here read the whole thing? This is some good reading! "The whole state would be evacuated" if even one live spider, as opposed to an "ex-spider" were found. That is good stuff! This made my day.

whiddershins 8y ago

There’s this concept that any time you see a new story where the topic is your area of expertise, it’s baffling how completely inaccurate the story is. And then we all keep reading stories about areas in which we aren’t experts, and it doesn’t occur to us that are likely equally misleading. Because if we all factored that in, we wouldn’t believe any news. And I guess we feel better thinking we know what’s going on, rather than acknowledging we are in the dark.

VikingCoder 8y ago
I really wish I could tell some system who I designate as authorities for given subjects. And then I could see the news annotated by the authorities I chose. Or by the people they acknowledge have authority over those subjects. Linus Torvalds is an expert on Linux. John Carmack is an expert on computer graphics. Tiger Woods is an expert on Golf. Al Gore is an expert on Climate Change. I don't care what Tiger Woods thinks about computer graphics. I don't care what Linus Torvalds thinks about Golf. I don't care what John Carmack thinks about Climate Change. But if those people that I've identified acknowledge that other people or groups get it "mostly right," and those people have annotated some news article, I desperately want to see their commentary! And I'd also be curious to learn who I think anti-experts are. When the people I think are authorities endorse an article on that subject, I want to see who condemns that article. And I want to read their commentary for myself. If I think they're loopy, I can flag them as anti-authorities. And yes, when there's dispute among the people I consider authorities on a given topic, I'll be especially interested to read the debate. I want to say that I probably trust people who work at the Washington Post to cover world news. I probably trust people at MIT, Cornell, Stanford to cover science. Eventually I'll discover which economic school most agrees with my take. Yes, this may re-enforce the bubble that I'm in. But like I said, I really do want to read the BEST arguments from people who disagree with my school of experts, too. Flame wars are a giant waste of time. I want to flag a comment, "I disagree, but this is the most persuasive point someone has made." Highlight THOSE comments. Even better are the comments where I can say, "You really turned me around on this one." I want to flag a comment from either side as, "Hey, can people from both sides please comment on this? This seems like it's interesting." I want to have Line Item Veto. To comment on specific parts of an article, highlighting them, to say they are for sure true, or they're for sure false, etc. Let the media have the chance to revise and correct their article. Hell, even fixing spelling and grammar mistakes is valuable. Note that I desperately want this same kind of annotation for research papers on arXiv, etc. I think I'd want it to work something like Google SideWiki, or maybe Disqus? Won't someone please implement this? The democracy of upvotes and downvotes on Reddit and Hacker News is a signal, but it can be gamed by bots, and NOT ALL OPINIONS ARE EQUAL. I don't want the system to TELL me who experts are. Maybe it can suggest experts. But it should damn well include Alex Jones (even though I detest him), and Fox News (even though I think they're the most incorrect major news source). If Jon Stewart or Dan Rather have something to say about an article?! You can bet your ass I want to read it! Hell, even linking me to a video of when Stephen Colbert talked about this topic last night adds some value. I read a blog post from a pediatrician once that I thought was excellent. He lamented roughly, "If you don't trust me to be an authority on vaccines for your child, then I don't know what kind of relationship you think we have." I agree with that. It's not that I think my pediatrician is RIGHT. It's that I grant that they have more authority on the subject than I do, and my world view is to trust scientific authority / consensus. Even though that's ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEE OF CORRECTNESS. I get that. But of the ways to try to understand the world, I prefer to view the world through the lens of scientists. And since we have divisions of labor, and I do not have enough time to become an expert myself, I want help in understanding how the experts I place trust in, how they view the world, and news, etc.

nimbius 8y ago

Working in a midwest auto repair shop, we get our share of spiders and such. Brown recluse spiders are just that, reclusive. Ive seen them take up residence in old tire piles mostly. Ive rarely seen a recluse, but our shop bathroom has a small window where a particularly large hobo spider has set up shop. We named him Biggie because, well, its a huge spider that just sits on a web all day munching bugs and judging your poor dietary standard. We used to assign cancelled tickets to biggie. at some point, biggie had a small workstation and even an entry in our timekeeping software (for testing.) So at some point he was just gone. We assumed he moved onto some nicer shop with tastier bugs, but as it turns out, biggie met his demise at the hands of our new tenant Goober, a chubby possum who made it through the window on a cold night and managed to scare the piss out of one of our front office sales folk. This was completely unacceptable, shouting at a colleague at work is tantamount to casual harassment. So, we did what any coworkers did. We took Goober out to eat by luring him back outside with grapes and raisins. After he was out for the day, we built him a little workstation, fashioned some personal protection equipment, and even made goobers toolbox. It holds all our weird porsche/BMW bolts and nuts that, as far as we can tell, are in hard enough spots on the vehicles that only a German possum could install.

ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
This made my morning. Thank you.
- kinleyd 8y ago
  Mine too. Thank you.
asciimo 8y ago
Thank you for being an agent of harmony.

k1ns 8y ago

I live in Brown Recluse country. For a little over a year, I lived in an apartment absolutely infested with Brown Recluse spiders. The entire block of apartments (i.e. units sharing one roof) had the problem. AFAIK, we were the only block at the complex with the issue. Early on in living there I captured several of the spiders and had them identified. I was terrified, to say the least. When I say infestation, I mean it literally. It was very unusual to make it to bedtime without killing at least one Brown Recluse. The most we ever killed in one night was 15. We would wake up all hours of the night, turn on our phone flashlights, and scan the room for any lurking on the ceiling or walls. Usually, the midnight scans would bear fruit. To this day I wake up in the middle of the night and reach for my phone before remembering that I'm no longer in that situation. One year and one week after moving into the apartment, I was bitten. One of the poor creatures found its way under my covers and into my shirt while I was sleeping. I rolled over on top of it and it bit me. The burn/itching actually woke me up shortly after and I was able to recover the spider from inside my shirt. I absolutely panicked, rounded up my entire family to drive me to the ER at 3 AM (because surely I was going to go into some kind of shock or other state of impairment) and even called the doctor on the way. Halfway to the ER, the doctor called back. He told me not to panic, and that there was actually nothing they could do about it right this minute. He told me to go home, go to sleep, and watch the bite for any signs of infection/necrosis. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the best advice I've ever heard regarding Brown Recluses. All in all, the bite amounted to little more than a massive mosquito bite. My body did have an allergic reaction (broke out in a rash head to toe) but it was honestly nothing like the horror stories. We moved two months later, but I'll never let myself forget the overreaction I presented and how silly it all was. I actually started to feel that I was getting to know them. Brown Recluses are exactly that: reclusive. They want nothing to do with us. They are magnificent hunters and terrible climbers (this is how they end up in your bed: they fall). They tend to stick to the edges of the room and are the only spider I've ever seen with a distinct "stalk" instead of a twitchy walk. They're honestly beautiful to watch (as I used to often). If you do have a Brown Recluse problem, don't panic. It took me over a year to get bitten while living in an actual nest of them and even then it was a freak accident. Buy yourself some of those rectangular glue traps and place them along your walls, behind furniture, and in the back of closets. Brown Recluses can be dangerous to children under the age of 7 and the elderly (which is why we moved promptly) so don't ignore them entirely. Learn to respect them for what they are just like anything else.

okreallywtf 8y ago

In a similar vein, supposedly a lot of "spider bites" are not spider bites (according to source): https://www.livescience.com/37974-he-surprising-cause-of-most-spider-bites.html https://www.livescience.com/37974-he-surprising-cause-of-mos... I've known people to theorize that many small welts are caused by spider bites even though they didn't see the spider or know when they got bitten.

dwyerm 8y ago
If clicking something with a clickbaity name isn't your thing, I can save you a click. The cause is "more likely to be bites or stings from other arthropods such as fleas, skin reactions to chemicals or infections."
- bradknowles 8y ago
  Bedbugs?

Pxtl 8y ago

What happens is occasionally you get news about some poor soul with multiple amputations because of necrotic tissue, and people assume "must've been a brown recluse" because it's a suitable scapegoat. And of course, the fear of the brown recluse is that they don't really look like anything. We all think we can recognize a black widow, but a brown recluse just looks like a typical house spider. That said, I'm suspicious a bit about comments how spiders never bite you. Last year suddenly the yellow sac spiders in the neighborhood got aggressive - I have no idea why, they're normally harmless house spiders all over my area, but I and a friend of mine both got bit by them completely out of the blue without warning. Spider just walked on and chomped. He told me he'd heard from others similar stories recently... I assumed it was some kind of distemper infection or something seasonal since normally they're harmless. It stung like hell and left my arm sore for a week.

davidw 8y ago

Oddly enough, even here in Oregon there's a persistent myth that we have those things.

brockers 8y ago

There are literally two in my office right now under my bookshelf. If you have them, you don't find one of these, you find dozens.

cantankerous 8y ago

I've lived in Portland OR, Mid MO, and the Kansas City area. In mid-Missouri, the brown recluse is the standard house spider. Pretty much every spider in my house there was a brown recluse. I had a weird bruise-y/necrotic bite on my hip that I assumed came from one that got in bed with me. It healed up fine without any medical intervention even though it lingered for awhile. I suspect a lot of people get bitten over the span of their lives but the bites aren't really noticeable. Spiders get in your bed or get into your clothes sometimes. It takes a bit of work/luck to get a recluse bite. They're not aggressive and they're not looking for trouble. The West Coast, in my experience, has very little on the Midwest when it comes to spiders and bugs. In Oregon I was blown away by the lack of bugs. I could leave my doors and windows open at night and nothing seemed to come in. Unreal! The only major thing Portland seemed to have on the middle states is slugs. Waking up in the morning to find slug trails in my kitchen and in the dog bowl was a weird experience. Live and learn!

aidenn0 8y ago
I live in the Santa Barbara area, and bugs are way less, probably because of how dry it is compared to the midwest. In mid MO I've seen ticks large enough to keep as pets! However, we do have a lot of black widows. They aren't super aggressive towards humans, but they tend to go in places that you only sometimes visit (the back of that one drawer in your toolchest you don't use very often, woodpiles, Christmas decorations in attic or garage, etc.) I put on gloves before going to any of those locations because I'm told even though it's non-fatal to healthy adults, it's supposed to be excruciatingly painful.
- lifeformed 8y ago
  Don't forget to check if they're in your gloves too!
  - macintux 8y ago
    Yep, I put my hand into a glove once only to find a spider there. Despite my general affection for spiders, that was not a happy moment.

axiomdata316 8y ago

This is an odd claim. I live in Riverside where this article was written and found two brown recluse spiders in the last year. One outside by the front door and the second inside my bedroom. The tell tale identifier is the small violin shape in its back. They may not be common in California but they're common in my house in Riverside California just down the road from UCR.

bradford 8y ago
You sure it's not one of the other violin species that were discussed in the article (loxosceles deserta, for example)?

jxramos 8y ago

Quite liked this jab """I repeatedly have seen the media in their "quest to seek out the truth" write completely speculative stories about the existence of the brown recluse in California. Unfortunately, the truth is not nearly good enough to sell news and therefore, a speculative story is fabricated based upon faulty assumptions."""

goda90 8y ago

I briefly lived in Chile, where the Chilean recluse is considerably more venomous than the brown recluse. I met one man who was bitten by one on a neck vein. The damage to his heart now requires life long medication. Because of that, I'm going to continue to be afraid of brown recluses, despite living several degrees north of their known range in the US.

haylcron 8y ago

Media hysteria is a very real danger to science and logic in general. Their concern is more about driving traffic to sites or getting viewers to increase ad revenue, not necessarily telling you the truth if it isn't particularly sexy. I see parallels with the onslaught against a lot of initiatives in the crop science sector. Playing to the emotions of people rather than the facts is a very dangerous spiral for us to fall into.

iamthepieman 8y ago

my Uncle got bit by a spider. Don't know if it was a recluse. He was getting dressed in the morning. Put his work pants on that were draped over a chair, felt a sting on his thigh and a spider fell on the floor when he ripped off the pant and shook them out. He had a hands width depression that was about an inch deep. This was after it was healed and completely scarred over. I don't know how big it was while healing. This was in Arkansas though so smack dab in the middle of the territory on that map[0] Helping some friends on a farm in West Virginia, their greenhouses would fill up with black widows in the early spring before they got around to cleaning them out for the first planting. 1000s of them in each greenhouse. Quickly learned that they are entirely harmless. [0]http://spiders.ucr.edu/images/colorloxmap.gif http://spiders.ucr.edu/images/colorloxmap.gif

S_A_P 8y ago

I live in Texas. There are brown recluse here. I don't really fear a spider since it doesn't seem like they are all that aggressive to people. The worst part of spiders to me are when I walk through a web. Ive had a bad spider bite that caused great swelling and some necrosis, but I don't know it was a brown recluse. I personally have a nasty fear of wasps, which I cannot rationally explain other than I think they look mean and evil and can fly at you. Here in Houston, we have 2 types that are especially aggressive. The worst is the yellow jacket, since they are great at building a hive in the ground and their small size means you don't see them until its too late in many cases. The other is the Mahogany/Red paper wasp. These guys are usually ok most of the year, but as summer turns to fall, they get a bit aggressive and start wanting your food. They are also relatively large and make pretty big nests. Even through they are great mosquito killers, I won't let a nest live near a place I frequent. We also have cicada killer wasps, which are very large and very inquisitive. That combination usually has me spazing out at least once a year as they dive bomb me...

the_af 8y ago
Same here: I fear wasps more than spiders. Some spiders look sort of cute, and even the ugly ones don't seem aggressive, but all types of wasps look aggressive to me, all the time. It doesn't help that I've been stung by wasps more than once, but never by spiders.
- bradknowles 8y ago
  Yeah, wasps are much worse for me than spiders. But scorpions are even worse than wasps. They don't have the sound of their wings beating or the actual capability of flight, but they are much more alien looking -- and acting.
  - the_af 8y ago
    Scorpions do look menacing, but are they aggressive? The thing with wasps for me was that both times I was stung, I sort of walked near a nest but wasn't really doing anything to disturb them. Or one time I was having dessert at a restaurant and a bunch of yellowjackets flew through the open window and ganged up on me and wanted my dessert and my coke (in this case they weren't aggressive but attracted to the sweet smells/tastes, I know, but still scary). However, every time I've seen scorpions, they were doing their thing, away from me, and I got the idea that unless I actually stepped on them, they'd leave me alone.

njarboe 8y ago

The Myth of the Myth of the Brown Recluse I have lived in California for 25 years and have never heard about the Brown Recluse living here. I guess I don't watch enough local news, but I think that Rick Vetter, being in the Department of Entomology at UC Riverside, is going to have an extreme over exposure to people who think the Brown Recluse is a problem. The random people who send him spiders are worried about the Brown Recluse, but 500 in say 30 years is not very many. If 1 in 500,000 people are super worried about these spiders in California, then he might interact with most of them. The essay is of course a bit tongue-in-cheek, but this problem of the Myth of the Brown Recluse is probably only experience by a small number of people.

larkeith 8y ago
Anecdata: I live in Oregon, and have always been mildly concerned about visiting California because I thought brown recluses lived there. I genuinely have no idea where I got the idea.
- lotyrin 8y ago
  Further: I used to live in Oregon and was given the impression that I might encounter them there (in Oregon).

smpetrey 8y ago

> Only a handful of specimens (less than 10) have ever been collected in California and usually there is some connection between the spider and a recent move or shipment from the Midwest. There is a great "awareness" of brown recluse spiders in California mostly through a misguided media barrage which is fed by a fear of the unknown and unfamiliar. I repeatedly have seen the media in their "quest to seek out the truth" write completely speculative stories about the existence of the brown recluse in California. Unfortunately, the truth is not nearly good enough to sell news and therefore, a speculative story is fabricated based upon faulty assumptions.

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BenjiWiebe 8y ago

Yes I'm here in Kansas laughing. I've had a brown recluse walk down my arm out of my sleeve, and didn't get bit. Just brushed it off and stepped on it. Also my cousin has had several confirmed brown recluse bites. Yes they were painful disgusting etc etc, but didn't kill her or cause any life changing damage...