4 ms·

Any information on which modern breeds are closest to the old European stock?

by armenarmen 8y ago

thaumasiotes 8y ago
What would it mean for one modern breed to be "closer" than another to the old stock?
- drb91 8y ago
  Presumably having more of the genes that remain from the original stock. That said I’d be pretty surprised if this was significant at the breed level—most breeds are a fraction of the 11kya mentioned here.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    > Presumably having more of the genes that remain from the original stock. That only makes sense if you believe that all "genes" are equally significant. By that metric, a hyrax is more similar to an elephant than it is to a marmot.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - drb91 8y ago
      Probably fair, I’ve hit the limits of my understanding here.
    - swebs 8y ago
      That does not matter. We want to measure closeness, not superficial similarity. Which species have the most recent common ancestor. A hyrax is closer to an elephant. It's not even a rodent. Dolphins and whales aren't fish either, even though they live under water and have fins.
      - stan_rogers 8y ago
        Well, in a monophylitic sense, dolphins and whales are fish... as are kangaroos and orangutans. Sarcopterygii, perhaps, but if we're not fish on that basis, then neither are coelacanths and lungfish.
      - thaumasiotes 8y ago
        If you want to measure that way, then the idea of one modern breed being closer to a common ancestor than another modern breed is is total nonsense; by definition, they're all equally close.
        swebs 8y ago
        No they're not. Look at that Nature article linked above.
        tfw 8y ago
        TFW you don't understand genetics...
LoSboccacc 8y ago
https://media.nature.com/original/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/170718/ncomms16082/extref/ncomms16082-s1.pdf https://media.nature.com/original/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/... this contains a whole load of various genetic distance measures between the european samples, ancient and modern dogs, ancient and modern wolves, but no pictures. maybe in the sources for the genome you can find the specimen, there are some Portuguese breed that seem the closest by a wide margin.

Any information on which modern breeds are closest to the old European stock?

thaumasiotes 8y ago

What would it mean for one modern breed to be "closer" than another to the old stock?

drb91 8y ago
Presumably having more of the genes that remain from the original stock. That said I’d be pretty surprised if this was significant at the breed level—most breeds are a fraction of the 11kya mentioned here.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  > Presumably having more of the genes that remain from the original stock. That only makes sense if you believe that all "genes" are equally significant. By that metric, a hyrax is more similar to an elephant than it is to a marmot.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - drb91 8y ago
    Probably fair, I’ve hit the limits of my understanding here.
  - swebs 8y ago
    That does not matter. We want to measure closeness, not superficial similarity. Which species have the most recent common ancestor. A hyrax is closer to an elephant. It's not even a rodent. Dolphins and whales aren't fish either, even though they live under water and have fins.
    - stan_rogers 8y ago
      Well, in a monophylitic sense, dolphins and whales are fish... as are kangaroos and orangutans. Sarcopterygii, perhaps, but if we're not fish on that basis, then neither are coelacanths and lungfish.
    - thaumasiotes 8y ago
      If you want to measure that way, then the idea of one modern breed being closer to a common ancestor than another modern breed is is total nonsense; by definition, they're all equally close.
      - swebs 8y ago
        No they're not. Look at that Nature article linked above.
      - tfw 8y ago
        TFW you don't understand genetics...

LoSboccacc 8y ago

https://media.nature.com/original/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/170718/ncomms16082/extref/ncomms16082-s1.pdf https://media.nature.com/original/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/... this contains a whole load of various genetic distance measures between the european samples, ancient and modern dogs, ancient and modern wolves, but no pictures. maybe in the sources for the genome you can find the specimen, there are some Portuguese breed that seem the closest by a wide margin.