4 ms·

"Happy" societies discourage the pleasures of melancholy. They judge people who enjoy sad songs and rainy days, or who prefer to stay single rather than go thro

"Happy" societies discourage the pleasures of melancholy. They judge people who enjoy sad songs and rainy days, or who prefer to stay single rather than go through the motions of dating people they don't really feel strongly for. It's not that the society is happier, it's that it is more determined to keep up the image of happiness. Really, it's just another status game, and just underneath the surface of those games lies true misery. There is no satisfying outlet.

makmanalp 16y ago
This sort of correlates with the theory that poor countries are happier because of their "less developed" lifestyle that encourages friendship and camaraderie over accomplishment and material gains.
- crazydiamond 16y ago
  Not sure if it's the "less developed lifestyle" or the adversity. When you have to fight corruption at each step, when there are problems with basic amenities like water, electricity, land shortage, class divides, language divides, then you do find a lot of friends who have the same issues as you. The above sounds a bit silly or ironic, but one hears of the miners who were trapped for months who built great friendships during those hard times. I am also reminded of that movie "Plenty".
rfugger 16y ago
Are you saying it's impossible for a happy society to exist?
notahacker 16y ago
I'm not sure that people whose life is a struggle to stay alive have much time to indulge in sad songs or wait for the perfect partner to come along: this kind of indulgence in misery and laser focus on small problems is exactly the kind of thing that's possible only in a society that's "happy" overall by virtue of good health, education and financial stability. I'd agree with you that the "status game" is more prevalent in "well-off" societies though, except I feel that there's parallel competition to have the biggest problems and the most cynical take on the positive things in life - good for melancholic and angst-ridden cultural output but not so good for the suicide rate.
- joelmichael 16y ago
  So melancholy is a shameful indulgence, and happiness is discipline and duty? Is it somehow better to those who struggle tragically if I keep a smile on my face at all times? My natural reaction upon thinking of them is to do the opposite. I think there is something sinister about recommending material indulgence as a means of overcoming the sin of "emotional" indulgence, especially if those who suffer from want are used as justification. Is all trauma in rich society non-existent? Does death no longer exist, or loneliness, or guilt, or regret, or uncertainty, or evil, or unrequited love, or feeling trapped, or inadequacy, or betrayal, or aging, or health issues, or any other existential problem? Why is art throughout history rife with these issues if they are abnormal elements of the human experience? I agree that some can overly prioritize negativity or cynicism, but I think this phenomenon is just a contrarian response to the dominant emotional valuation. I am tempted into it whenever someone insists that I must be happy, or talks down about angst as if they were not themselves human. It's offensive to the spirit and sense of honesty, integrity, and self. Better to let feelings flow naturally. I too like feeling happy, if it's genuine. As for the "perfect partner", I either feel a romantic pull towards someone, or I don't. Every time I see people fake it for the sake of looking normal, it ends in disaster.
  - notahacker 16y ago
    I think you're overanalysing my comments; I certainly never said anything about duty to be happy or the absence of trauma in wealthy society. My point was simply that the less-well-off have considerably more pressure not to react emotionally to [relatively minor] adverse circumstances and considerably less time for introspection and musing over what could have been, if only. Possibly their everyday crises also better-calibrate their sense of perspective (or if you prefer, densensitize them). I'm not convinced that rich society is dominated by the relentless pressure to be happy so much as a focus on emotional state, whether that's trying outdo each other in terms of success or agonising over failings many would consider trivial, because the meeting of our material needs can be taken for granted and none of our social relationships are based on need. (The problem with the search "perfect partner" is not so much the romantic pull at the beginning as the worry that the level of romantic bliss is not what it once was, or could be, or the grass might be greener on the other side.)

makmanalp 16y ago

This sort of correlates with the theory that poor countries are happier because of their "less developed" lifestyle that encourages friendship and camaraderie over accomplishment and material gains.

crazydiamond 16y ago
Not sure if it's the "less developed lifestyle" or the adversity. When you have to fight corruption at each step, when there are problems with basic amenities like water, electricity, land shortage, class divides, language divides, then you do find a lot of friends who have the same issues as you. The above sounds a bit silly or ironic, but one hears of the miners who were trapped for months who built great friendships during those hard times. I am also reminded of that movie "Plenty".

rfugger 16y ago

Are you saying it's impossible for a happy society to exist?

notahacker 16y ago

I'm not sure that people whose life is a struggle to stay alive have much time to indulge in sad songs or wait for the perfect partner to come along: this kind of indulgence in misery and laser focus on small problems is exactly the kind of thing that's possible only in a society that's "happy" overall by virtue of good health, education and financial stability. I'd agree with you that the "status game" is more prevalent in "well-off" societies though, except I feel that there's parallel competition to have the biggest problems and the most cynical take on the positive things in life - good for melancholic and angst-ridden cultural output but not so good for the suicide rate.

joelmichael 16y ago
So melancholy is a shameful indulgence, and happiness is discipline and duty? Is it somehow better to those who struggle tragically if I keep a smile on my face at all times? My natural reaction upon thinking of them is to do the opposite. I think there is something sinister about recommending material indulgence as a means of overcoming the sin of "emotional" indulgence, especially if those who suffer from want are used as justification. Is all trauma in rich society non-existent? Does death no longer exist, or loneliness, or guilt, or regret, or uncertainty, or evil, or unrequited love, or feeling trapped, or inadequacy, or betrayal, or aging, or health issues, or any other existential problem? Why is art throughout history rife with these issues if they are abnormal elements of the human experience? I agree that some can overly prioritize negativity or cynicism, but I think this phenomenon is just a contrarian response to the dominant emotional valuation. I am tempted into it whenever someone insists that I must be happy, or talks down about angst as if they were not themselves human. It's offensive to the spirit and sense of honesty, integrity, and self. Better to let feelings flow naturally. I too like feeling happy, if it's genuine. As for the "perfect partner", I either feel a romantic pull towards someone, or I don't. Every time I see people fake it for the sake of looking normal, it ends in disaster.
- notahacker 16y ago
  I think you're overanalysing my comments; I certainly never said anything about duty to be happy or the absence of trauma in wealthy society. My point was simply that the less-well-off have considerably more pressure not to react emotionally to [relatively minor] adverse circumstances and considerably less time for introspection and musing over what could have been, if only. Possibly their everyday crises also better-calibrate their sense of perspective (or if you prefer, densensitize them). I'm not convinced that rich society is dominated by the relentless pressure to be happy so much as a focus on emotional state, whether that's trying outdo each other in terms of success or agonising over failings many would consider trivial, because the meeting of our material needs can be taken for granted and none of our social relationships are based on need. (The problem with the search "perfect partner" is not so much the romantic pull at the beginning as the worry that the level of romantic bliss is not what it once was, or could be, or the grass might be greener on the other side.)