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As a beginner, I have no idea what docker is. This is one of the most frustrating parts of learning ANY language. The assumed knowledge and supposed "here's a

As a beginner, I have no idea what docker is. This is one of the most frustrating parts of learning ANY language. The assumed knowledge and supposed "here's a quick start guide" actually starts on step 8. Don't assume the beginner knows what docker is. Don't assume the beginner knows what a shell is. I've tried to learn 3-4 languages or frameworks over the years, and I have only a vague idea of how to move between directories in the command prompt. Nevermind where I should download or extract files. I've found people's attitude when I tell them this is dismissive. But I sold a business for 6 figures last year that was parimarily automation scripts in PHP. Figure that one out.

avip 8y ago
I do not assume anything. I'm taking the beginner seat almost daily, in some context or another. But he who shell instruct his children to start with installing docker, rather with installing "python" (which is an ill-defined term) - will have much, much sooner, a class running predictable setup. And, speaking of assuming things - it will keep running even without network connectivity.
iamdave 8y ago
But I sold a business for 6 figures last year that was parimarily automation scripts in PHP. Figure that one out. I'd be keen to learn more, can I reach out? I'm not really looking for guidance or ideas to do the same, I just genuinely enjoy reading these kinds of stories-like a weird Reader's Digest sort of thing but for entrepreneurs.
darkerside 8y ago
Here's a counterpoint. It's ok that you don't know what docker is. It's ok that you don't know what a shell is. What exactly is the nature of the dismissive attitude from others that has held you back from learning? Perhaps these are real opinions, but consider the source. If they are smarter than they are rude, and their opinions hold value, maybe suck it up and learn something. If it's not worth it to you, ignore them and walk away. Regardless, don't let other people's feelings hold you back from learning. And don't let other people's feelings about you dictate your feelings about yourself. On the other hand, perhaps these attitudes are partly a projection of your own feelings. Use it as motivation to learn the things that you feel like you should know.
- Avshalom 8y ago
  Yeah it's fine not to know what docker is in like a moral sense. But when it comes to wanting to write anything beyond hello world you start running into package and environment and container managers that everyone is arguing with everyone about. I mean hell this thread is like three different recommendations for python that all end with "fuck it use JavaScript". That shit is discouraging and the annoying thing--coming from some who first wrote a Tetris clone a decade ago--is that it's recent. A decade ago you just downloaded a library and put it in the folder you were writing in. Now while that still probably works library how-tos have all either gotten complicated or assume you've already complicated that shit.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    > A decade ago you just downloaded a library and put it in the folder you were writing in. And you run software by downloading a .zip, unpacking it and executing the program in that folder. I miss the times when both development and use was that simple. And it was what, like 10 years ago?
- nonce725 8y ago
  Valid point about projecting my own feelings. I was more trying to make a point that if you're writing a guide or tutorial, actually start from the beginning.
  - darkerside 8y ago
    I understand it can be frustrating, but keep in mind your beginning is different from other people's beginnings. It's similar to the problem of telling the story of an historical event. Where do you start? To analyze the root cause of e.g WW1, you'd end up going back to the beginning of recorded history. Part of learning to learn is learning to keep going through things even when you don't fully understand.
jjjensen90 8y ago
> But I sold a business for 6 figures last year that was parimarily automation scripts in PHP. Figure that one out. This is something I've tried to tell my teams over the years... There is no direct correlation between technical complexity and business value! Some problems require complex engineering to be solved, but value and even durability do not come from technical excellence for 99.99% of businesses... Of course as a software developer I prefer to walk pristine halls of cutting edge software with perfect tests but the businesses I've sold/run have numbed me to the idea that fancy code makes the big bucks...

avip 8y ago

I do not assume anything. I'm taking the beginner seat almost daily, in some context or another. But he who shell instruct his children to start with installing docker, rather with installing "python" (which is an ill-defined term) - will have much, much sooner, a class running predictable setup. And, speaking of assuming things - it will keep running even without network connectivity.

iamdave 8y ago

But I sold a business for 6 figures last year that was parimarily automation scripts in PHP. Figure that one out. I'd be keen to learn more, can I reach out? I'm not really looking for guidance or ideas to do the same, I just genuinely enjoy reading these kinds of stories-like a weird Reader's Digest sort of thing but for entrepreneurs.

darkerside 8y ago

Here's a counterpoint. It's ok that you don't know what docker is. It's ok that you don't know what a shell is. What exactly is the nature of the dismissive attitude from others that has held you back from learning? Perhaps these are real opinions, but consider the source. If they are smarter than they are rude, and their opinions hold value, maybe suck it up and learn something. If it's not worth it to you, ignore them and walk away. Regardless, don't let other people's feelings hold you back from learning. And don't let other people's feelings about you dictate your feelings about yourself. On the other hand, perhaps these attitudes are partly a projection of your own feelings. Use it as motivation to learn the things that you feel like you should know.

Avshalom 8y ago
Yeah it's fine not to know what docker is in like a moral sense. But when it comes to wanting to write anything beyond hello world you start running into package and environment and container managers that everyone is arguing with everyone about. I mean hell this thread is like three different recommendations for python that all end with "fuck it use JavaScript". That shit is discouraging and the annoying thing--coming from some who first wrote a Tetris clone a decade ago--is that it's recent. A decade ago you just downloaded a library and put it in the folder you were writing in. Now while that still probably works library how-tos have all either gotten complicated or assume you've already complicated that shit.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > A decade ago you just downloaded a library and put it in the folder you were writing in. And you run software by downloading a .zip, unpacking it and executing the program in that folder. I miss the times when both development and use was that simple. And it was what, like 10 years ago?
nonce725 8y ago
Valid point about projecting my own feelings. I was more trying to make a point that if you're writing a guide or tutorial, actually start from the beginning.
- darkerside 8y ago
  I understand it can be frustrating, but keep in mind your beginning is different from other people's beginnings. It's similar to the problem of telling the story of an historical event. Where do you start? To analyze the root cause of e.g WW1, you'd end up going back to the beginning of recorded history. Part of learning to learn is learning to keep going through things even when you don't fully understand.

jjjensen90 8y ago

> But I sold a business for 6 figures last year that was parimarily automation scripts in PHP. Figure that one out. This is something I've tried to tell my teams over the years... There is no direct correlation between technical complexity and business value! Some problems require complex engineering to be solved, but value and even durability do not come from technical excellence for 99.99% of businesses... Of course as a software developer I prefer to walk pristine halls of cutting edge software with perfect tests but the businesses I've sold/run have numbed me to the idea that fancy code makes the big bucks...