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Not familiar with the details but that's too bad. Taylor Energy should be paying for all of it. And if that makes them insolvent, so be it. I can see maximums t

Not familiar with the details but that's too bad. Taylor Energy should be paying for all of it. And if that makes them insolvent, so be it. I can see maximums to put sanity around things like slip and fall lawsuits putting mom and pop operations out of business, but not something like this.

vkou 8y ago
> slip and fall lawsuits putting mom and pop operations out of business A sufficiently bad slip and fall can put the falling person out of employ-ability. I've had the pleasure of slipping and falling, when a neighbourhood restaurant was cleaning their floors... In near-freezing weather. The soapy water ran out onto the (highly inclined street), and as soon as I stepped on it, I fell flat on my ass. Now, since I'm a healthy twenty-something-year-old, I got up, cursed for a few minutes, and kept going. If I weren't, and were a manual laborer, that one fall could have left me seriously injured, and destitute. I don't care that the perpetrator in question was a mom & pop shop. Negligent behavior can destroy a life.
- sathackr 8y ago
  I generally watch where I'm walking, particularly on highly inclined streets, and would recognize a soapy water covered slope and know that it might be slippery. Are you saying they should have put up a sign to advise you that the street was wet and might be slippery? And it was their negligence that caused your fall, not your negligence to properly observe your surroundings?
  - vageli 8y ago
    > I generally watch where I'm walking, particularly on highly inclined streets, and would recognize a soapy water covered slope and know that it might be slippery. > Are you saying they should have put up a sign to advise you that the street was wet and might be slippery? And it was their negligence that caused your fall, not your negligence to properly observe your surroundings? Dumping water on a street in freezing weather without a sign is negligent. Would we be having this conversation if a kid slipped and fell in the same place? If you are making a place hazardous, it's generally on you to provide warning and failing to do so is negligent.
    - sathackr 8y ago
      Dumping water in the middle of a street in freezing weather is different than your first post in which in near freezing weather, soapy water ran out into the street due to floor cleaning. Regardless, I can't subscribe to that line of thinking in either instance. Every normal person is capable of assessing their environment and plotting a safe course through it. If you tripped over a curb, it wouldn't be the person that put the curb there's fault. You can't expect someone else to make your world safe for you. Your line of thinking is how a thief can sue when he gets injured breaking into your house -- you failed to make it safe for him [1][2] Parents are responsible for the safety of their children, not random shop owners. IANAL but I believe the legal standard that would be applied is reasonableness. Is it reasonable for a person, traversing a highly-inclined street, in freezing weather, to expect the street not to contain any frozen patches of water. My stance is known -- I'm responsible for my and my children's safety, but I concede that your line of reason seems to be prevalent in society today. There is a line of reasonableness that could be cross in which I would blame the other party. Ice on a street in freezing weather could be expected. A land mine would not be expected. Nor would a chunk of ice falling from an airplane. Those are situations in which I could reasonably find fault with another party. [1] http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1985-11-17/news/0340390083_1_shasta-district-skylights-bodine http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1985-11-17/news/03403900... [2] https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/09/the-burglar-and-the-skylight-another-debunking-that-isnt/ https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/09/the-burglar-and-the-sky...
      - vkou 8y ago
        > Every normal person is capable of assessing their environment I've walked up and down that sidewalk hundreds of times, in dry, wet, and cold conditions. I have never thought twice of walking down it in the rain. From visual inspection, the water was not obviously soapy. All it looked like was a wet patch of sidewalk. It looked just fine to step on. > IANAL but I believe the legal standard that would be applied is reasonableness. Is it reasonable for a person, traversing a highly-inclined street, in freezing weather, to expect the street not to contain any frozen patches of water. It wasn't an ice slick, it hasn't rained or snowed in the past week, so the street was otherwise bone-dry. There was no indication that the situation was dangerous. I've never seen anyone else, before, or since, be stupid enough to dump a bunch of soap on that sidewalk, either, so its not exactly a common hazard. It's not that bloody hard to run your business without creating a hazard to the public. I don't care if your revenue is a million, or a billion dollars a year. Get it right, and don't hurt people.

vkou 8y ago

> slip and fall lawsuits putting mom and pop operations out of business A sufficiently bad slip and fall can put the falling person out of employ-ability. I've had the pleasure of slipping and falling, when a neighbourhood restaurant was cleaning their floors... In near-freezing weather. The soapy water ran out onto the (highly inclined street), and as soon as I stepped on it, I fell flat on my ass. Now, since I'm a healthy twenty-something-year-old, I got up, cursed for a few minutes, and kept going. If I weren't, and were a manual laborer, that one fall could have left me seriously injured, and destitute. I don't care that the perpetrator in question was a mom & pop shop. Negligent behavior can destroy a life.

sathackr 8y ago
I generally watch where I'm walking, particularly on highly inclined streets, and would recognize a soapy water covered slope and know that it might be slippery. Are you saying they should have put up a sign to advise you that the street was wet and might be slippery? And it was their negligence that caused your fall, not your negligence to properly observe your surroundings?
- vageli 8y ago
  > I generally watch where I'm walking, particularly on highly inclined streets, and would recognize a soapy water covered slope and know that it might be slippery. > Are you saying they should have put up a sign to advise you that the street was wet and might be slippery? And it was their negligence that caused your fall, not your negligence to properly observe your surroundings? Dumping water on a street in freezing weather without a sign is negligent. Would we be having this conversation if a kid slipped and fell in the same place? If you are making a place hazardous, it's generally on you to provide warning and failing to do so is negligent.
  - sathackr 8y ago
    Dumping water in the middle of a street in freezing weather is different than your first post in which in near freezing weather, soapy water ran out into the street due to floor cleaning. Regardless, I can't subscribe to that line of thinking in either instance. Every normal person is capable of assessing their environment and plotting a safe course through it. If you tripped over a curb, it wouldn't be the person that put the curb there's fault. You can't expect someone else to make your world safe for you. Your line of thinking is how a thief can sue when he gets injured breaking into your house -- you failed to make it safe for him [1][2] Parents are responsible for the safety of their children, not random shop owners. IANAL but I believe the legal standard that would be applied is reasonableness. Is it reasonable for a person, traversing a highly-inclined street, in freezing weather, to expect the street not to contain any frozen patches of water. My stance is known -- I'm responsible for my and my children's safety, but I concede that your line of reason seems to be prevalent in society today. There is a line of reasonableness that could be cross in which I would blame the other party. Ice on a street in freezing weather could be expected. A land mine would not be expected. Nor would a chunk of ice falling from an airplane. Those are situations in which I could reasonably find fault with another party. [1] http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1985-11-17/news/0340390083_1_shasta-district-skylights-bodine http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1985-11-17/news/03403900... [2] https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/09/the-burglar-and-the-skylight-another-debunking-that-isnt/ https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/09/the-burglar-and-the-sky...
    - vkou 8y ago
      > Every normal person is capable of assessing their environment I've walked up and down that sidewalk hundreds of times, in dry, wet, and cold conditions. I have never thought twice of walking down it in the rain. From visual inspection, the water was not obviously soapy. All it looked like was a wet patch of sidewalk. It looked just fine to step on. > IANAL but I believe the legal standard that would be applied is reasonableness. Is it reasonable for a person, traversing a highly-inclined street, in freezing weather, to expect the street not to contain any frozen patches of water. It wasn't an ice slick, it hasn't rained or snowed in the past week, so the street was otherwise bone-dry. There was no indication that the situation was dangerous. I've never seen anyone else, before, or since, be stupid enough to dump a bunch of soap on that sidewalk, either, so its not exactly a common hazard. It's not that bloody hard to run your business without creating a hazard to the public. I don't care if your revenue is a million, or a billion dollars a year. Get it right, and don't hurt people.