4 ms·

>I think it's pretty transparently clear that even if you hate the drug itself, there have been no obvious disasters in the legalized states. Tax revenue plus n

>I think it's pretty transparently clear that even if you hate the drug itself, there have been no obvious disasters in the legalized states. Tax revenue plus no hugely obvious negative effects is a hard argument to deny. As someone who supports legalization, it's still way too early to definitively say that. Marijuana is not a harmless substance. There will very definitely be some negative effects, and acting like it's a magical panacea will not be helpful. Marijuana addiction is very real, although it only affects a small subset of users (~9% is often quoted). There have been zero long term studies with regard to a population's lifetime health outcomes having regular access to highly potent, legal marijuana. Only time will tell, although on the net I have no doubt these negatives will balance to an overall positive.

mjevans 8y ago
I support legalizing... well nearly everything. Some things might be actually dangerous and need to only be used within controlled settings. Having said that, I'd really prefer if everyone that wanted marijuana would use the ediables rather than smoking it in various ways. Living in a state where it's legal, I absolutely detest the smell, it's smoke is even more potent and disgusting than tobacco. On the same note, I hate tobacco smoke and want use of such products to be limited to negative-draw scrubbed exhaust environments.
- TheCycoONE 8y ago
  In Ontario, smoking tobacco or marijuana is illegal at anywhere in any business that the public has regular access to, including outdoor patios, as well as a buffer area around playgrounds. That mostly eliminates being forced to endure other peoples smoke more than in passing - unless your neighbors smoke heavily in their yard.
- wwweston 8y ago
  I couldn't agree more. I supported various decriminalization and legalization pushes on the principle that the criminal justice system is a poor avenue for addressing things that are public health problem, which is a principle I still believe in. But I've got some considerable buyer's regret; I don't want to smoke myself, and as far as I can tell, it's shockingly common that smokers of either tobacco or cannabis are (a) pretty bad at realizing how others experience it (and how far the experience travels) and/or (b) not particularly considerate about the fact that others haven't signed up for it. It's particularly galling in living situations where people will smoke on balconies or just outside an entryway apparently heedless of the fact that smoke will travel in other people's windows; and even smoking indoors travels through both windows and ventilation systems. For a while I thought this might be something that could be solved via education and etiquette, but there are too many entitled smokers. I don't think this is a problem that's going to be fixable without at least minor citations/fines to back up the right behavior. And we might need to see if there's a relationship with production that's neither full-on industrialized nor necessarily driven underground.
  - berberous 8y ago
    Have you tried complaining to your neighbors? They might not be aware that you can smell it. The further upside of legalization is all the advancements in e-pens, the smell of which really does not travel at all. Ask your neighbors to use a pen at home.
    - mjevans 8y ago
      One of the places I hate it most is while driving, but also while walking... pretty much ALL public places should be non-smoking of anything. However yes, it does extend to balconies, and from a surprising distance away. I'm not kidding when I say it should be legally confined to areas which must have both negative draw (a high inward air pressure difference so that leaks go inside instead of out) and scrubbed exhaust (so that everything gets filtered out, often by water percolation to soak up the vaporized tar and other particles).
  - bfuller 8y ago
    By this logic you support giving citations to neighbors whose food cooking smell you dont like.
    - wwweston 8y ago
      Smoke is in play in this discussion. Not just smoke, but smoke of products that are chosen for their bioactive nature. Tobacco smoke in particular is all kinds of problematic, but cannabis is not harmless and even wood smoke is hazardous. This is not merely a discussion about scent-related experiences, it's a discussion of exporting health hazards into other's environments on top of exporting a smell that's widely considered unpleasant. But even assuming health issues weren't in play, there might well be a case that being an acceptable neighbor involves keeping many forms of sensory exports to a minimum. Loud music can be rude. Loud music or construction projects after 9pm are rude. Storing your asafoetida on the balcony would be pretty rude too, even if it can be used to make some super tasty food. Fish in the microwave will make you unpopular at some offices. So... yeah, we can go "by this logic" if you like, it's just not where the case stops.
- adamrezich 8y ago
  Counterpoint: Edibles often take a couple hours or more to take noticeable effect which leads to overconsumption among some consumers. I'd argue that it's actually the most dangerous type of cannabis consumption because it's so easy to overconsume. (Can't comment on the smell of smoke due to anosmia since birth!)
- makewavesnotwar 8y ago
  Do you live in the bay area? I live in Colorado (the first state to legalize recreational use) and I never smell weed on the streets. When I was traveling to the bay area for work (while it still wasn't legalized), everywhere I walked I would smell dank ganja. And I don't mean that as a compliment. Terms like skunk when describing weed aren't thrown around without reason. Here in CO most people I know that still smoke have moved from bud and use vaporizers much like e-cigarettes to "vape" concentrates. The concentrates smell nothing like their burnt bud cousins... it smells lightly floral if at all. I'm not so sure areas like the bay really set a proper example as you are probably smelling some shwag from the homeless dude walking down the street rather than what the legal market is providing. Or maybe people in Colorado are just more conscientious of others. As a side note, regarding weed smoke: > it's smoke is even more potent and disgusting than tobacco That's just not true. While the dankest bud might be more objectionable to the nose, most tobacco is grown in conventional soil where it is essentially a sponge for metals like arsenic and cadmium. Weed is much the same type of plant, but being grown in controlled environments in man-made soil (and often soilless growth mediums), it isn't exposed to anywhere near the same levels of toxins and therefore doesn't assimilate the same toxicity as stuff like tobacco.
mabbo 8y ago
Every reason one might use to outlaw marijuana is far worse for alcohol. Health effects, addiction, harm to others, etc. If we intend to keep pot illegal, alcohol should follow.
- aphextron 8y ago
  Alcohol is obviously way worse. I'm just saying the whole euphoric "weed is awesome" mentality will fade as legalization comes about and more and more people start having troubles with it. Alcoholics Anonymous was founded in 1935; 2 years after the repeal of prohibition. The reality is that it's just another drug which can cause addictive behavior, and lauding its' large scale industrialization seems no different than supporting big tobacco at this point.
  - smileysteve 8y ago
    But don't compare it only to alcohol, compare it to opioids; which are killing people quickly.
    - chrisbennet 8y ago
      Why compare it to something much, much worse? It makes as much sense as comparing it to sugar - neither makes any sense.
      - felix_nagaand 8y ago
        Because opioid use decreased in states with legal marijuana... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2676999 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/articl...
  - taurath 8y ago
    > Alcohol is obviously way worse > more and more people start having troubles with [weed] The latter case is not a guarantee - the potential negative effect is (IMO and through my experience) likely closer to that of coffee addiction than alcohol. The difference is weed addicts can get help for it rather than be thrown in jail - the industry is/was already there, but having it above board can allow for much better outcomes.
scarface74 8y ago
Well, keeping marijuana illegal hasn’t stopped anyone who wanted it from easily getting it. What it has done is led to selective enforcement and prosecution of the poor and minorities. Anything that takes a weapon out of the hand of the “Justice system” like making it legal is a net positive.

mjevans 8y ago

I support legalizing... well nearly everything. Some things might be actually dangerous and need to only be used within controlled settings. Having said that, I'd really prefer if everyone that wanted marijuana would use the ediables rather than smoking it in various ways. Living in a state where it's legal, I absolutely detest the smell, it's smoke is even more potent and disgusting than tobacco. On the same note, I hate tobacco smoke and want use of such products to be limited to negative-draw scrubbed exhaust environments.

TheCycoONE 8y ago
In Ontario, smoking tobacco or marijuana is illegal at anywhere in any business that the public has regular access to, including outdoor patios, as well as a buffer area around playgrounds. That mostly eliminates being forced to endure other peoples smoke more than in passing - unless your neighbors smoke heavily in their yard.
wwweston 8y ago
I couldn't agree more. I supported various decriminalization and legalization pushes on the principle that the criminal justice system is a poor avenue for addressing things that are public health problem, which is a principle I still believe in. But I've got some considerable buyer's regret; I don't want to smoke myself, and as far as I can tell, it's shockingly common that smokers of either tobacco or cannabis are (a) pretty bad at realizing how others experience it (and how far the experience travels) and/or (b) not particularly considerate about the fact that others haven't signed up for it. It's particularly galling in living situations where people will smoke on balconies or just outside an entryway apparently heedless of the fact that smoke will travel in other people's windows; and even smoking indoors travels through both windows and ventilation systems. For a while I thought this might be something that could be solved via education and etiquette, but there are too many entitled smokers. I don't think this is a problem that's going to be fixable without at least minor citations/fines to back up the right behavior. And we might need to see if there's a relationship with production that's neither full-on industrialized nor necessarily driven underground.
- berberous 8y ago
  Have you tried complaining to your neighbors? They might not be aware that you can smell it. The further upside of legalization is all the advancements in e-pens, the smell of which really does not travel at all. Ask your neighbors to use a pen at home.
  - mjevans 8y ago
    One of the places I hate it most is while driving, but also while walking... pretty much ALL public places should be non-smoking of anything. However yes, it does extend to balconies, and from a surprising distance away. I'm not kidding when I say it should be legally confined to areas which must have both negative draw (a high inward air pressure difference so that leaks go inside instead of out) and scrubbed exhaust (so that everything gets filtered out, often by water percolation to soak up the vaporized tar and other particles).
- bfuller 8y ago
  By this logic you support giving citations to neighbors whose food cooking smell you dont like.
  - wwweston 8y ago
    Smoke is in play in this discussion. Not just smoke, but smoke of products that are chosen for their bioactive nature. Tobacco smoke in particular is all kinds of problematic, but cannabis is not harmless and even wood smoke is hazardous. This is not merely a discussion about scent-related experiences, it's a discussion of exporting health hazards into other's environments on top of exporting a smell that's widely considered unpleasant. But even assuming health issues weren't in play, there might well be a case that being an acceptable neighbor involves keeping many forms of sensory exports to a minimum. Loud music can be rude. Loud music or construction projects after 9pm are rude. Storing your asafoetida on the balcony would be pretty rude too, even if it can be used to make some super tasty food. Fish in the microwave will make you unpopular at some offices. So... yeah, we can go "by this logic" if you like, it's just not where the case stops.
adamrezich 8y ago
Counterpoint: Edibles often take a couple hours or more to take noticeable effect which leads to overconsumption among some consumers. I'd argue that it's actually the most dangerous type of cannabis consumption because it's so easy to overconsume. (Can't comment on the smell of smoke due to anosmia since birth!)
makewavesnotwar 8y ago
Do you live in the bay area? I live in Colorado (the first state to legalize recreational use) and I never smell weed on the streets. When I was traveling to the bay area for work (while it still wasn't legalized), everywhere I walked I would smell dank ganja. And I don't mean that as a compliment. Terms like skunk when describing weed aren't thrown around without reason. Here in CO most people I know that still smoke have moved from bud and use vaporizers much like e-cigarettes to "vape" concentrates. The concentrates smell nothing like their burnt bud cousins... it smells lightly floral if at all. I'm not so sure areas like the bay really set a proper example as you are probably smelling some shwag from the homeless dude walking down the street rather than what the legal market is providing. Or maybe people in Colorado are just more conscientious of others. As a side note, regarding weed smoke: > it's smoke is even more potent and disgusting than tobacco That's just not true. While the dankest bud might be more objectionable to the nose, most tobacco is grown in conventional soil where it is essentially a sponge for metals like arsenic and cadmium. Weed is much the same type of plant, but being grown in controlled environments in man-made soil (and often soilless growth mediums), it isn't exposed to anywhere near the same levels of toxins and therefore doesn't assimilate the same toxicity as stuff like tobacco.

mabbo 8y ago

Every reason one might use to outlaw marijuana is far worse for alcohol. Health effects, addiction, harm to others, etc. If we intend to keep pot illegal, alcohol should follow.

aphextron 8y ago
Alcohol is obviously way worse. I'm just saying the whole euphoric "weed is awesome" mentality will fade as legalization comes about and more and more people start having troubles with it. Alcoholics Anonymous was founded in 1935; 2 years after the repeal of prohibition. The reality is that it's just another drug which can cause addictive behavior, and lauding its' large scale industrialization seems no different than supporting big tobacco at this point.
- smileysteve 8y ago
  But don't compare it only to alcohol, compare it to opioids; which are killing people quickly.
  - chrisbennet 8y ago
    Why compare it to something much, much worse? It makes as much sense as comparing it to sugar - neither makes any sense.
    - felix_nagaand 8y ago
      Because opioid use decreased in states with legal marijuana... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2676999 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/articl...
- taurath 8y ago
  > Alcohol is obviously way worse > more and more people start having troubles with [weed] The latter case is not a guarantee - the potential negative effect is (IMO and through my experience) likely closer to that of coffee addiction than alcohol. The difference is weed addicts can get help for it rather than be thrown in jail - the industry is/was already there, but having it above board can allow for much better outcomes.

scarface74 8y ago

Well, keeping marijuana illegal hasn’t stopped anyone who wanted it from easily getting it. What it has done is led to selective enforcement and prosecution of the poor and minorities. Anything that takes a weapon out of the hand of the “Justice system” like making it legal is a net positive.