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This has nothing to do with UberCab because they are not dispatching cabs to their customers. UberCab is pre-arranging a limo/professional chauffeur/personal dr

by sp4rki 16y ago

This has nothing to do with UberCab because they are not dispatching cabs to their customers. UberCab is pre-arranging a limo/professional chauffeur/personal driver service with valid license and insurance policies required for private transport services to pickup a customer at a select location.

varikin 16y ago
How is that different than calling for a cab to pick you up at a certain place and time?
- gojomo 16y ago
  Well, in SF, you can call a cab and wait for hours with it never arriving. It seems the key cab/limo distinction is usually reserved/roaming. While both can be dispatched/reserved, only cabs can roam and be hailed streetside. UberCab is in compliance with that distinction -- they are reserved, just more instantly than ever before, because of the march of technology.
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- sp4rki 16y ago
  The difference is that instead of a yellow car, you get a black car. What is a limo service but a luxury version of a taxi service? The distinguishing factor is that one can pickup passengers on the street and by hail and the other is only made by prearrangement and is considered a PRIVATE luxury service.
uvdiv 16y ago
I don't understand the laws; my link was to show that S.F. taxis operate as a cartel, and use city laws to enforce their cartel (through medallions and their quota). I don't know if this is precisely what the UberCab C&D is about (it's not been published), but it does show that the S.F. transport market is explicitly and intentionally anti-competitive. That said, the other TechCrunch post seems to say the taxi licensing may be relevant -- the functions UberCab is doing can only be legally done by licensed taxis: >* Ubercab operates much like a cab company but does not have a taxi license. >... >* Limos in U.S. cities usually have to prebook an hour in advance, by law, while only licensed taxis can pick someone up right away but Ubercab picks people up right away (again without a taxi license). http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/24/ubercab/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/24/ubercab/ If limos need to wait an hour to make a pickup, and taxis do not, then UberCab (I think) is doing what only taxis can do and thus needs that license, not the limo one. The fundamental problem is not that UberCab is licensed as a limo rather than a taxi, but rather that it is impossible for it to be licensed as a taxi -- that (as I understand) there is no reasonable way for them to legally do what they are doing. I am not a lawyer.
- lolname 16y ago
  They could make a deal with taxi companies, to pass the < 1hr fares to them instead. Problem solved.
  - uptown 16y ago
    Who needs laws when you've got bribes, right?
- sp4rki 16y ago
  Oh no I understood the point of the link. Taxi operations in SF really is mob controlled. The thing is, UberCab was never meant to be a replacement to taxi cabs, it's a way to provide people with expedited black car services. Ubercab operates much like a cab company but does not have a taxi license. This is incorrect. They operate much like a sedan limousine company. Limos in U.S. cities usually have to prebook an hour in advance, by law, while only licensed taxis can pick someone up right away but Ubercab picks people up right away (again without a taxi license). This is also incorrect, the pertinent statues in taxi and limo commission law is this: ...assuring that affiliated vehicles and the drivers of such vehicles provide transportation only through pre- arrangement made with the base station and do not accept passengers by street hail or other than by dispatch by the base station Using the phone app is by definition a pre-arrangement. The black cars are not picking random people off the streets, they're picking a preset customer in prearranged fashion. but rather that it is impossible for it to be licensed as a taxi Why should they? They are not a taxi company. Not only that, but they don't actually own the cars either, it's an affiliate program basically. They are a layer for independent private chauffeur services and limousine services companies to have ability to make their prearrangements on the phone.
tzs 16y ago
> UberCab is pre-arranging a limo/professional chauffeur/personal driver service with valid license and insurance policies required for private transport services to pickup a customer at a select location. The limo/chauffeur/driver has a valid license to operate a limo service, not a cab service. They are operating as a cab service when dispatched by UberCab, and so if they do not have a cab license, it would seem that they are operating outside the law.
- jessriedel 16y ago
  Exactly. In particular, limos need to arrange for pick-up at least 1 hour beforehand in SF to avoid being classified as taxis (if I remember correctly from the original article).
  - sp4rki 16y ago
    California law stated that limousines must be dispatched on a private hire prearrangement basis, regardless of if the reservation is an hour before or not. The vast majority of the limousines services in the united states offer last minute dispatch services if available. This is a in all effects and excuse to stop UberCar, not a requirement. Let's say I arrived at the airport and forgot to book my limo. You're telling me that I can't call a limo service and ask for one? And that if I do I have to wait an hour? That's not how it works nor how its stated by the law.
    - jessriedel 16y ago
      OK, first, don't get all mad at me. I don't support such a law; I was just quoting my recollection of it from a previous article. Second, I think I was remembering this quote > Limos in U.S. cities usually have to prebook an hour in advance, by law, while only licensed taxis can pick someone up right away which may not apply to SF. Do you have a source that there is in fact no such time-limit in SF?
      - sp4rki 16y ago
        Oh no sorry if it came of as if I attacking you, I wasn't, I was just making a point! :) That quote is false as almost all Limo services allow you to use their services on a last minute basis if they have available limos. To be honest, I've never been to SF, but I've been to SD and LA and have used last minute limo services (trust me its just a bit more expensive than a cab and it makes a world of difference) there. I've also done so in Florida, Atlanta, Houston, and Wichita. Also this regulation doesn't appear anywhere online, but the part that specifies what makes a limo service in contrast to a taxi service is.

by sp4rki 16y ago

varikin 16y ago

How is that different than calling for a cab to pick you up at a certain place and time?

gojomo 16y ago
Well, in SF, you can call a cab and wait for hours with it never arriving. It seems the key cab/limo distinction is usually reserved/roaming. While both can be dispatched/reserved, only cabs can roam and be hailed streetside. UberCab is in compliance with that distinction -- they are reserved, just more instantly than ever before, because of the march of technology.
- deleted 16y ago
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deleted 16y ago
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sp4rki 16y ago
The difference is that instead of a yellow car, you get a black car. What is a limo service but a luxury version of a taxi service? The distinguishing factor is that one can pickup passengers on the street and by hail and the other is only made by prearrangement and is considered a PRIVATE luxury service.

uvdiv 16y ago

I don't understand the laws; my link was to show that S.F. taxis operate as a cartel, and use city laws to enforce their cartel (through medallions and their quota). I don't know if this is precisely what the UberCab C&D is about (it's not been published), but it does show that the S.F. transport market is explicitly and intentionally anti-competitive. That said, the other TechCrunch post seems to say the taxi licensing may be relevant -- the functions UberCab is doing can only be legally done by licensed taxis: >* Ubercab operates much like a cab company but does not have a taxi license. >... >* Limos in U.S. cities usually have to prebook an hour in advance, by law, while only licensed taxis can pick someone up right away but Ubercab picks people up right away (again without a taxi license). http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/24/ubercab/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/24/ubercab/ If limos need to wait an hour to make a pickup, and taxis do not, then UberCab (I think) is doing what only taxis can do and thus needs that license, not the limo one. The fundamental problem is not that UberCab is licensed as a limo rather than a taxi, but rather that it is impossible for it to be licensed as a taxi -- that (as I understand) there is no reasonable way for them to legally do what they are doing. I am not a lawyer.

lolname 16y ago
They could make a deal with taxi companies, to pass the < 1hr fares to them instead. Problem solved.
- uptown 16y ago
  Who needs laws when you've got bribes, right?
sp4rki 16y ago
Oh no I understood the point of the link. Taxi operations in SF really is mob controlled. The thing is, UberCab was never meant to be a replacement to taxi cabs, it's a way to provide people with expedited black car services. Ubercab operates much like a cab company but does not have a taxi license. This is incorrect. They operate much like a sedan limousine company. Limos in U.S. cities usually have to prebook an hour in advance, by law, while only licensed taxis can pick someone up right away but Ubercab picks people up right away (again without a taxi license). This is also incorrect, the pertinent statues in taxi and limo commission law is this: ...assuring that affiliated vehicles and the drivers of such vehicles provide transportation only through pre- arrangement made with the base station and do not accept passengers by street hail or other than by dispatch by the base station Using the phone app is by definition a pre-arrangement. The black cars are not picking random people off the streets, they're picking a preset customer in prearranged fashion. but rather that it is impossible for it to be licensed as a taxi Why should they? They are not a taxi company. Not only that, but they don't actually own the cars either, it's an affiliate program basically. They are a layer for independent private chauffeur services and limousine services companies to have ability to make their prearrangements on the phone.

tzs 16y ago

> UberCab is pre-arranging a limo/professional chauffeur/personal driver service with valid license and insurance policies required for private transport services to pickup a customer at a select location. The limo/chauffeur/driver has a valid license to operate a limo service, not a cab service. They are operating as a cab service when dispatched by UberCab, and so if they do not have a cab license, it would seem that they are operating outside the law.

jessriedel 16y ago
Exactly. In particular, limos need to arrange for pick-up at least 1 hour beforehand in SF to avoid being classified as taxis (if I remember correctly from the original article).
- sp4rki 16y ago
  California law stated that limousines must be dispatched on a private hire prearrangement basis, regardless of if the reservation is an hour before or not. The vast majority of the limousines services in the united states offer last minute dispatch services if available. This is a in all effects and excuse to stop UberCar, not a requirement. Let's say I arrived at the airport and forgot to book my limo. You're telling me that I can't call a limo service and ask for one? And that if I do I have to wait an hour? That's not how it works nor how its stated by the law.
  - jessriedel 16y ago
    OK, first, don't get all mad at me. I don't support such a law; I was just quoting my recollection of it from a previous article. Second, I think I was remembering this quote > Limos in U.S. cities usually have to prebook an hour in advance, by law, while only licensed taxis can pick someone up right away which may not apply to SF. Do you have a source that there is in fact no such time-limit in SF?
    - sp4rki 16y ago
      Oh no sorry if it came of as if I attacking you, I wasn't, I was just making a point! :) That quote is false as almost all Limo services allow you to use their services on a last minute basis if they have available limos. To be honest, I've never been to SF, but I've been to SD and LA and have used last minute limo services (trust me its just a bit more expensive than a cab and it makes a world of difference) there. I've also done so in Florida, Atlanta, Houston, and Wichita. Also this regulation doesn't appear anywhere online, but the part that specifies what makes a limo service in contrast to a taxi service is.