3 ms·

I don't see a meaningful difference between personal and political spending here. If I can pay a politician to enact a policy I want, perhaps to the detriment o

by Buldak 8y ago

I don't see a meaningful difference between personal and political spending here. If I can pay a politician to enact a policy I want, perhaps to the detriment of his constituency or society at large, what do I care if he goes on to spend that money on sports cars or his campaign to retain office? As far as I'm concerned it's quid pro quo either way.

Green_man 8y ago
This might be pedantic, but legally speaking, if you were to "pay a politician" for voting a certain way, it would be highly illegal. "quid pro quo", on a campaign contribution or a porsche or a briefcase of cash is all illegal.
- calgoo 8y ago
  IMO, lobbying is legalized bribing, so too me, lobbying is paying a politician to vote or do as you ask.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > lobbying is legalized bribing So when I call my elected leaders to voice up about an issue, that's bribery? Because what I'm doing is lobbying. Or, if I call my elected leader and patch in a friend in another state who's more knowledgeable about the domain, is that lobbying? If it's not, then what if my friend and I both patch in an out-of-district friend? What if we form a formal club? If we want (a) freedom of political speech and (b) freedom of political assembly, it gets really hard to separate a grassroots interest group from a destructive commercial one. (And should civic interests always trump commercial interests? That's a political question, too!) TL; DR Democracy can't exist without lobbying. With respect to paid lobbying, I might agree, but the devil's in the details.
tzs 8y ago
You aren't taking into account causality. "Here's a sports car for you if you vote the way I like on this issue": this suggests that the sports car bought the vote, and so is indicative of corruption. "I like your position on this issue, here's some money for your campaign to help you get elected, and that can only be spent for that": this suggests that the position is the cause of the money, not the other way around, and so is not indicative of corruption.

by Buldak 8y ago

Green_man 8y ago

This might be pedantic, but legally speaking, if you were to "pay a politician" for voting a certain way, it would be highly illegal. "quid pro quo", on a campaign contribution or a porsche or a briefcase of cash is all illegal.

calgoo 8y ago
IMO, lobbying is legalized bribing, so too me, lobbying is paying a politician to vote or do as you ask.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > lobbying is legalized bribing So when I call my elected leaders to voice up about an issue, that's bribery? Because what I'm doing is lobbying. Or, if I call my elected leader and patch in a friend in another state who's more knowledgeable about the domain, is that lobbying? If it's not, then what if my friend and I both patch in an out-of-district friend? What if we form a formal club? If we want (a) freedom of political speech and (b) freedom of political assembly, it gets really hard to separate a grassroots interest group from a destructive commercial one. (And should civic interests always trump commercial interests? That's a political question, too!) TL; DR Democracy can't exist without lobbying. With respect to paid lobbying, I might agree, but the devil's in the details.

tzs 8y ago

You aren't taking into account causality. "Here's a sports car for you if you vote the way I like on this issue": this suggests that the sports car bought the vote, and so is indicative of corruption. "I like your position on this issue, here's some money for your campaign to help you get elected, and that can only be spent for that": this suggests that the position is the cause of the money, not the other way around, and so is not indicative of corruption.