7 ms·

I don’t think generally calling it “failure” is fair. I think you could call it “marketing failure”.

docker_up 8y ago
At what point does it become a failure, if 0 users after 4 months of effort is NOT a failure? Coddling people, especially in business, is very counterproductive. People could waste years of their lives following bad paths because of bad advice like yours. Not a single person has decided that the product is worth paying money for. If the purpose of the effort was to get some people to pay money for this, and the outcome is 0, how could you honestly say this isn't a failure?
- madmulita 8y ago
  Yes, but how would one feel if one had to admit failure. We must put feelings before data! /s
  - marcelluspye 8y ago
    Or maybe, it makes sense to identify why something failed and label it as such.
- matt_the_bass 8y ago
  I agree that there is some point that one needs to say failure. However from how I read the OPs description, it sounds like the product has not been marketed in any way other than a single Show HN. That is clearly a marketing failure. It possible points as a business failure but does not mean it is a product failure. I think we need more data to state definitively.
- not_real_acct 8y ago
  I couldn't agree more. I have a friend who's pushing fifty years old and he's been trying to make money with the same product for nearly thirty years now. I see his friends on Facebook constantly encouraging him, and telling him that he does great work. He doesn't. His product is atrocious. They're just being nice and he should've thrown in the towel twenty-nine years ago. His income is literally less than $100 a year. (I believe he's on SSI disability now, which is how he gets by.)
paulcole 8y ago
It was on the frontpage of Hacker News. That's not a marketing failure.
- matt_the_bass 8y ago
  With all due respect only making 1 post on HN is not in my opinion effective marketing.
  - paulcole 8y ago
    He paid no money and got a few dozen signups in just a few hours. If that's a failed campaign then I wish I can fail like that.
    - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
      They were just trial signups, though. None of them resulting in making money.
      - paulcole 8y ago
        That's not a marketing failure that's a product/support failure.
- mindcrime 8y ago
  There's a lot more to marketing than getting on the front page of HN. OP, I suggest you read Traction by Gabriel Weinberg, and The Four Steps to the Epiphany by Steve Blank, and consider if you've successfully identified who your customers are, and a valid channel for reaching them. Further ask if you've correctly identified a problem that those customers will pay to have solved, and whether or not your product actually solves that problem. How do you do that? Talk to customers. All of this stuff is in the Steve Blank book. Also consider reading The Mom Test[1] by Rob Fitzpatrick. [1]: https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=the+mom+test&index=aps&tag=hydsma-20&ref=pd_sl_4x7iu6nu4x_e&adgrpid=53518527302&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=274697998008&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1886659730974151501&hvqmt=e&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9060439&hvtargid=aud-509611686427:kwd-301633211935 https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=the+mom+test&inde...

At what point does it become a failure, if 0 users after 4 months of effort is NOT a failure? Coddling people, especially in business, is very counterproductive. People could waste years of their lives following bad paths because of bad advice like yours. Not a single person has decided that the product is worth paying money for. If the purpose of the effort was to get some people to pay money for this, and the outcome is 0, how could you honestly say this isn't a failure?

madmulita 8y ago
Yes, but how would one feel if one had to admit failure. We must put feelings before data! /s
- marcelluspye 8y ago
  Or maybe, it makes sense to identify why something failed and label it as such.
matt_the_bass 8y ago
I agree that there is some point that one needs to say failure. However from how I read the OPs description, it sounds like the product has not been marketed in any way other than a single Show HN. That is clearly a marketing failure. It possible points as a business failure but does not mean it is a product failure. I think we need more data to state definitively.
not_real_acct 8y ago
I couldn't agree more. I have a friend who's pushing fifty years old and he's been trying to make money with the same product for nearly thirty years now. I see his friends on Facebook constantly encouraging him, and telling him that he does great work. He doesn't. His product is atrocious. They're just being nice and he should've thrown in the towel twenty-nine years ago. His income is literally less than $100 a year. (I believe he's on SSI disability now, which is how he gets by.)

paulcole 8y ago

It was on the frontpage of Hacker News. That's not a marketing failure.

matt_the_bass 8y ago
With all due respect only making 1 post on HN is not in my opinion effective marketing.
- paulcole 8y ago
  He paid no money and got a few dozen signups in just a few hours. If that's a failed campaign then I wish I can fail like that.
  - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
    They were just trial signups, though. None of them resulting in making money.
    - paulcole 8y ago
      That's not a marketing failure that's a product/support failure.
mindcrime 8y ago
There's a lot more to marketing than getting on the front page of HN. OP, I suggest you read Traction by Gabriel Weinberg, and The Four Steps to the Epiphany by Steve Blank, and consider if you've successfully identified who your customers are, and a valid channel for reaching them. Further ask if you've correctly identified a problem that those customers will pay to have solved, and whether or not your product actually solves that problem. How do you do that? Talk to customers. All of this stuff is in the Steve Blank book. Also consider reading The Mom Test[1] by Rob Fitzpatrick. [1]: https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=the+mom+test&index=aps&tag=hydsma-20&ref=pd_sl_4x7iu6nu4x_e&adgrpid=53518527302&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=274697998008&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1886659730974151501&hvqmt=e&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9060439&hvtargid=aud-509611686427:kwd-301633211935 https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=the+mom+test&inde...