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> Respect your seniors How about just "respect people". I've literally seen how "respect your seniors" plays out in reality: any idea from new/junior team mem
by stephenr 8y ago
> Respect your seniors
How about just "respect people".
I've literally seen how "respect your seniors" plays out in reality: any idea from new/junior team members is effectively ignored, because they're not 'senior' enough.
- diddid 8y agoSeriously? The next point is “love your juniors” so what you are saying shouldn’t happen. But then again... I think loving your juniors usually ends up with HR.
- stephenr 8y agolove !== respect.
- diddid 8y agolove == respect
- alexmat 8y agoI love peanut butter.
- baud147258 8y agoI love my brother, but I don't respect him (most of the time), since he's a bit of dork. I still love him, because of our relationship, the shared experiences and the knowledge he'd be here when I need him. I respect my boss, because she's my senior, she is a good leader and a competent dev in her own right. But I don't love her.
- Yetanfou 8y agoAh, but it doesn't state you should love those of equal age or standing - depending on how you interpret 'junior' and 'senior' so there is still some room for complaints here. Not serious, of course, if any 'CoC' is needed I'd say "just behave" or "do not do unto others what you wouldn't have done upon yourself" should suffice. Rule #9 in the Rule of St. Benedict already states something similar, now just get rid of the rest and you're done.
- HarryHirsch 8y agoAh, but the original Latin has iuniores diligere, that's means "esteem highly", "regard with affection" & so on. Instead you have these age and gender silos in American society, and the silly sex jokes and the Pence Rule, it's worrisome for anyone who has to navigate through it.
- drb91 8y agoWhat on earth are you talking about? Can you rephrase in a way that a reasonable person can follow?
- Yetanfou 8y agoIuniores diligere can mean 'love the juniors' but I suspect St. Benedict used the verb 'diligo' in one of its other meanings: diligo: love, distinguish by choosing, regard above others, esteem highly, value, prize. Romantic love is 'amo' in latin (and Italian), St. Benedict is not telling you to get into problems with HR when loving anyone. Iuniores means just what it says, 'the younger' so 'iuniores diligere' does mean 'love the younger' and as such fits perfectly in whatever 'age silo' doctrine you want Americans to accuse of professing. There is no mention of gender at all, nor do Pence or sex jokes come into play here.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- djsumdog 8y agoI agree. Giving someone undue respect just because they're old is ageism. Some old people never really grew up and are still jerks (I plan on being one of them; getting my grumpy on). Respect everyone.
- qbaqbaqba 8y agoSenior in this context probably means superiors. Someone has to look the original Latin version up.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- drb91 8y agoWhile you are correct that “respect people” is a better general purpose rule, you are throwing out the baby with the bath water: experience is valuable.
- stephenr 8y agoI didn't say ignore senior opinions. I said don't ignore juniors.
- drb91 8y agoDid you miss the rule about loving your juniors?
- stephenr 8y agoLove !== respect.
- tgroshon 8y agoYes it does; you have a fundamental misunderstanding of one, the other, or both
- stephenr 8y agoPretty much any dictionary on the planet will disagree with you. But then, so does basic logic. But I mean, we're debating an open source project that has adopted a Code of Conduct, with point one demanding that contributors believe in a superstitious all powerful being. We're way past fucking logic here aren't we.
- drb91 8y agoIf there is value in this semantic quibbling you have failed to illustrate it.
- i_am_right 8y agoThe technology industry is rife with ageism. There isn't nearly as much outrage about it as there should be.