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My mom is retired and part of the Kentucky Retirement System. Fun fact most people don't know about some of these- you forfeit your social security benefits wh

My mom is retired and part of the Kentucky Retirement System. Fun fact most people don't know about some of these- you forfeit your social security benefits when you participate. Because of this my mom cannot draw my dead fathers benefits. https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2018/03/20/kentucky-teachers-pension-reform-social-security/438031002/ https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2018/03...

tareqak 8y ago
I want to say something beyond, “this is wrong”, but I haven’t the words. Does Kentucky not want teachers? There are shortages in some states.
- alistairSH 8y ago
  No, they don't. To most of Kentucky's ruling class, public schools are evil. They'd love to see them all fail, so they can shift school funds to vouchers for Christian schools.[1][2] 1 - https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/joseph-gerth/2018/06/07/hal-heiner-matt-bevin-state-school-board-vouchers-charter-schools/680338002/ https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/joseph-gert... 2 - https://www.mattbevin.com/issues https://www.mattbevin.com/issues
  - w1nst0nsm1th 8y ago
    Belgium here. That story is one more issue that makes me literally think : "America is so broken". And most of the time republicans seem to have a big stake in it.
    - leereeves 8y ago
      I thought Belgium had the equivalent of school vouchers: public funding that can be used for any school of the parent's choice. That's what Republicans want here. Instead, in America, public school students are told which school they will attend. Usually, but not always, the closest. The Democrats are responsible for that.
      - alistairSH 8y ago
        You sure about that? Grant and Blaine were Republicans.[1] Blaine Amendments were created as anti-Catholic measures. Protestant Americans are all for religious freedom, as long as it's their own flavor of Christianity. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaine_Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaine_Amendment
        leereeves 8y ago
        Have anything more recent than 150 years ago?
        alistairSH 8y ago
        The laws that control funding parochial schools were implemented 150 years ago, so no.
        leereeves 8y ago
        And Republicans would like to rewrite those laws and create school vouchers. It's the Democrats who oppose that now, whatever happened 150 years ago.
seanhunter 8y ago
That's appalling. I wish I could offer more than mere sympathy but I'm truly horrified by this.
- SilasX 8y ago
  Why appalling? You also don't have to pay the SS taxes under such schemes and they typically give a better return because they're not effectively invested 100% in government bonds. (The problem, of course, is when someone raids the fund itself.)
  - sp332 8y ago
    But if the spouse did pay SS all their working lives, they should be able to get the benefits.
    - SilasX 8y ago
      Ah, misunderstood that people were reacting to the second sentence ("because of this ..."). That part is definitely stupid. The "spousal benefit" should be considered as attached to the earner and should be unaffected the spouse's waiver of her own accrued SS benefits.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - mikeash 8y ago
    The whole point of SS is to be a reliable backstop you can count on even if “wiser” investment strategies fail.
refurb 8y ago
The reason Kentucky teachers don't get Social Security dates back to 1935 when the Social Security law was enacted, leaving out state and municipal employees, said Beau Barnes, deputy executive director of the Kentucky Teachers' Retirement System, or KTRS...Teachers do not pay into Social Security but pay into their state retirement systems. It sounds like that was a conscious choice. It's not like it was taken away from them.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  With the implied understanding that the pension would remain solvent, and not strip mined by financial predators.
- leetrout 8y ago
  Correct but my dad worked his whole life and paid in to social security so I don't think it's fair she doesn't get his survivorship benefits.
Duladian 8y ago
Kentucky isn't the only state like this. California and other states have the same policy with teachers not being able to collect SS benefits. Although our pensions here for teachers are really nice. https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Ripoff-Social-Security-and-California-Teachers.html https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Ripoff-Social-Secur...
toomuchtodo 8y ago
Would you be interested in speaking with a Congressional legislator to have this edge case addressed? While your mother waived her own social security benefits, public policy should allow her to collect her spouse's spousal benefit.
- leetrout 8y ago
  I would. And others have tried to change this. It's very frustrating for me that she doesn't get what she should. She also worked in private practice and I believe still had to pay into SS but at a reduced rate since wouldn't be able to draw. I'm lee at lee trout dot com if you want to drop me a line.
rabboRubble 8y ago
I've read stories of retired employees in your mom's situation who starved to death when their city pension went bankrupt. This is a thing... I've had to correct a lot of people's notions that when people bitch about public pensions, the people who worked under those public pensions have no fallback. At this point, the person says "what about SS?" Me, "um no, they aren't eligible." I'll try to find the story and post. I came across the story shortly after the 2008 crisis.

tareqak 8y ago

I want to say something beyond, “this is wrong”, but I haven’t the words. Does Kentucky not want teachers? There are shortages in some states.

alistairSH 8y ago
No, they don't. To most of Kentucky's ruling class, public schools are evil. They'd love to see them all fail, so they can shift school funds to vouchers for Christian schools.[1][2] 1 - https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/joseph-gerth/2018/06/07/hal-heiner-matt-bevin-state-school-board-vouchers-charter-schools/680338002/ https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/joseph-gert... 2 - https://www.mattbevin.com/issues https://www.mattbevin.com/issues
- w1nst0nsm1th 8y ago
  Belgium here. That story is one more issue that makes me literally think : "America is so broken". And most of the time republicans seem to have a big stake in it.
  - leereeves 8y ago
    I thought Belgium had the equivalent of school vouchers: public funding that can be used for any school of the parent's choice. That's what Republicans want here. Instead, in America, public school students are told which school they will attend. Usually, but not always, the closest. The Democrats are responsible for that.
    - alistairSH 8y ago
      You sure about that? Grant and Blaine were Republicans.[1] Blaine Amendments were created as anti-Catholic measures. Protestant Americans are all for religious freedom, as long as it's their own flavor of Christianity. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaine_Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaine_Amendment
      - leereeves 8y ago
        Have anything more recent than 150 years ago?
        alistairSH 8y ago
        The laws that control funding parochial schools were implemented 150 years ago, so no.
        leereeves 8y ago
        And Republicans would like to rewrite those laws and create school vouchers. It's the Democrats who oppose that now, whatever happened 150 years ago.

seanhunter 8y ago

That's appalling. I wish I could offer more than mere sympathy but I'm truly horrified by this.

SilasX 8y ago
Why appalling? You also don't have to pay the SS taxes under such schemes and they typically give a better return because they're not effectively invested 100% in government bonds. (The problem, of course, is when someone raids the fund itself.)
- sp332 8y ago
  But if the spouse did pay SS all their working lives, they should be able to get the benefits.
  - SilasX 8y ago
    Ah, misunderstood that people were reacting to the second sentence ("because of this ..."). That part is definitely stupid. The "spousal benefit" should be considered as attached to the earner and should be unaffected the spouse's waiver of her own accrued SS benefits.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- mikeash 8y ago
  The whole point of SS is to be a reliable backstop you can count on even if “wiser” investment strategies fail.

refurb 8y ago

The reason Kentucky teachers don't get Social Security dates back to 1935 when the Social Security law was enacted, leaving out state and municipal employees, said Beau Barnes, deputy executive director of the Kentucky Teachers' Retirement System, or KTRS...Teachers do not pay into Social Security but pay into their state retirement systems. It sounds like that was a conscious choice. It's not like it was taken away from them.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
With the implied understanding that the pension would remain solvent, and not strip mined by financial predators.
leetrout 8y ago
Correct but my dad worked his whole life and paid in to social security so I don't think it's fair she doesn't get his survivorship benefits.

Duladian 8y ago

Kentucky isn't the only state like this. California and other states have the same policy with teachers not being able to collect SS benefits. Although our pensions here for teachers are really nice. https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Ripoff-Social-Security-and-California-Teachers.html https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Ripoff-Social-Secur...

toomuchtodo 8y ago

Would you be interested in speaking with a Congressional legislator to have this edge case addressed? While your mother waived her own social security benefits, public policy should allow her to collect her spouse's spousal benefit.

leetrout 8y ago
I would. And others have tried to change this. It's very frustrating for me that she doesn't get what she should. She also worked in private practice and I believe still had to pay into SS but at a reduced rate since wouldn't be able to draw. I'm lee at lee trout dot com if you want to drop me a line.

rabboRubble 8y ago

I've read stories of retired employees in your mom's situation who starved to death when their city pension went bankrupt. This is a thing... I've had to correct a lot of people's notions that when people bitch about public pensions, the people who worked under those public pensions have no fallback. At this point, the person says "what about SS?" Me, "um no, they aren't eligible." I'll try to find the story and post. I came across the story shortly after the 2008 crisis.