3 ms·

His claim is that the parts have the apple logo on them because they are in fact genuine parts, do you have reason to think he is lying about that?

sjwright 8y ago
"Lous Rossman, on his own reddit account in a comment, says that he commissioned the batteries from a factory in China that was no longer authorized to make those batteries, because likely they lost the bid/contract to do so." https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossmann_admits_to_using_parts_from_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossman...
- sjwright 8y ago
  Louis on the law: "The reason is that, if you are not “authorized” to buy an original part, it is considered counterfeit, regardless of the content of the actual part. The way the law works right now, if I bought five iPhone 5C from the Apple store, flew to China, took the five screens off and shipped them to an unauthorized repair shop in Jacksonville – they would be taken as “counterfeit” for having Apple logos. I personally believe this to be wrong, regardless of what the law says – but it is the world we live in, and the vendors deal with that reality the way they do." And for what it's worth he even acknowledges the possibility that they fit his personal definition of counterfeit: "This is Chinese market, which is known for counterfeits. It is possible something is fake. This is also an industry where everything is done to place roadblocks to people like me getting parts - I realize he is jumping through hoops and could've made a mistake. Since I have not seen the box prior to it being confiscated, there’s no way for me to tell what is in there..." https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossmann_admits_to_using_parts_from_a/e85aahb/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossman...
- bitreign33 8y ago
  At no point does that post by Rossman state "The batteries in this shipment were counterfeit". If the batteries were built to Apple's specifications explicitly for the purpose of going into an Apple device and were not used, does that make them counterfeit? If he is getting the same kind of of surplus parts we get here in Europe (everything comes from Shenzhen anyway...) then there is functionally no difference between them and the parts installed in an Apple device, because that is the specification they were built to/what their intended use at production was. I doubt an Apple engineer could reliably distinguish between parts used in a machine then recovered and the kind of surplus you get from decent resellers in China, they are for all intents and purposes the exact same part.
  - sjwright 8y ago
    > If the batteries were built to Apple's specifications explicitly for the purpose of going into an Apple device and were not used, does that make them counterfeit? That's pretty much the exact definition of counterfeit. The product doesn't need to be inferior or even different in order to qualify. Counterfeits could be absolutely identical. If I went to a company that was capable of manufacturing US currency to the exact same quality and standard as the US Federal Reserve, how perfect would they need to be before they stop being counterfeit? Trick question: they are always counterfeit, because they were not issued by the US Federal Reserve. This company may be manufacturing batteries to Apple's specification and possibly even maintaining Apple's level of quality control. And they are allowed to do that. They can sell their batteries to Louis. But they can't print the Apple logo on them.
    - Faark 8y ago
      > This company may be manufacturing batteries to Apple's specification [...]. And they are allowed to do that. They can sell their batteries to Louis. Can they? I'd expect Apple trying very hard to prevent that via patents, "only sell to us"-contracts, not offering specifications, laws against reverse engineering, etc. I'd expect Louis would want to buy them, if available. So why isn't he / aren't they available?
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        > patents Yep, viable choice. Patents definitely are standing in the way of many things, IMO, but this is the very reason of its existence, so we need to decide whether we want to protect companies (and spur innovation, at least that's the theory - we definitely should revisit it and measure it) or if we want to allow people to start new companies making now-not-patented cheap hardware. > "only sell to us"-contracts, not offering specifications What's wrong about that? > laws against reverse engineering Are there any? I'm not aware. Can you elaborate? > why [...] aren't they available? Probably because making counterfeit (as defined by law) hardware isn't that profitable anymore and the market is too small for legal newcomers. What I really don't understand is why the company he bought from had to stick an Apple logo on it. It wouldn't be counterfeit if they didn't.
- jordanthoms 8y ago
  Ok, looks like this is more nuanced than I had realized.

sjwright 8y ago

"Lous Rossman, on his own reddit account in a comment, says that he commissioned the batteries from a factory in China that was no longer authorized to make those batteries, because likely they lost the bid/contract to do so." https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossmann_admits_to_using_parts_from_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossman...

sjwright 8y ago
Louis on the law: "The reason is that, if you are not “authorized” to buy an original part, it is considered counterfeit, regardless of the content of the actual part. The way the law works right now, if I bought five iPhone 5C from the Apple store, flew to China, took the five screens off and shipped them to an unauthorized repair shop in Jacksonville – they would be taken as “counterfeit” for having Apple logos. I personally believe this to be wrong, regardless of what the law says – but it is the world we live in, and the vendors deal with that reality the way they do." And for what it's worth he even acknowledges the possibility that they fit his personal definition of counterfeit: "This is Chinese market, which is known for counterfeits. It is possible something is fake. This is also an industry where everything is done to place roadblocks to people like me getting parts - I realize he is jumping through hoops and could've made a mistake. Since I have not seen the box prior to it being confiscated, there’s no way for me to tell what is in there..." https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossmann_admits_to_using_parts_from_a/e85aahb/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossman...
bitreign33 8y ago
At no point does that post by Rossman state "The batteries in this shipment were counterfeit". If the batteries were built to Apple's specifications explicitly for the purpose of going into an Apple device and were not used, does that make them counterfeit? If he is getting the same kind of of surplus parts we get here in Europe (everything comes from Shenzhen anyway...) then there is functionally no difference between them and the parts installed in an Apple device, because that is the specification they were built to/what their intended use at production was. I doubt an Apple engineer could reliably distinguish between parts used in a machine then recovered and the kind of surplus you get from decent resellers in China, they are for all intents and purposes the exact same part.
- sjwright 8y ago
  > If the batteries were built to Apple's specifications explicitly for the purpose of going into an Apple device and were not used, does that make them counterfeit? That's pretty much the exact definition of counterfeit. The product doesn't need to be inferior or even different in order to qualify. Counterfeits could be absolutely identical. If I went to a company that was capable of manufacturing US currency to the exact same quality and standard as the US Federal Reserve, how perfect would they need to be before they stop being counterfeit? Trick question: they are always counterfeit, because they were not issued by the US Federal Reserve. This company may be manufacturing batteries to Apple's specification and possibly even maintaining Apple's level of quality control. And they are allowed to do that. They can sell their batteries to Louis. But they can't print the Apple logo on them.
  - Faark 8y ago
    > This company may be manufacturing batteries to Apple's specification [...]. And they are allowed to do that. They can sell their batteries to Louis. Can they? I'd expect Apple trying very hard to prevent that via patents, "only sell to us"-contracts, not offering specifications, laws against reverse engineering, etc. I'd expect Louis would want to buy them, if available. So why isn't he / aren't they available?
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      > patents Yep, viable choice. Patents definitely are standing in the way of many things, IMO, but this is the very reason of its existence, so we need to decide whether we want to protect companies (and spur innovation, at least that's the theory - we definitely should revisit it and measure it) or if we want to allow people to start new companies making now-not-patented cheap hardware. > "only sell to us"-contracts, not offering specifications What's wrong about that? > laws against reverse engineering Are there any? I'm not aware. Can you elaborate? > why [...] aren't they available? Probably because making counterfeit (as defined by law) hardware isn't that profitable anymore and the market is too small for legal newcomers. What I really don't understand is why the company he bought from had to stick an Apple logo on it. It wouldn't be counterfeit if they didn't.
jordanthoms 8y ago
Ok, looks like this is more nuanced than I had realized.