7 ms·

> or have their OS seized by eminent domain If there's one thing the government is known for, it's writing bug-free, efficient software. Also, for real, this

> or have their OS seized by eminent domain If there's one thing the government is known for, it's writing bug-free, efficient software. Also, for real, this bug is not that bad. It's obviously a bug you'd rather not have. But no user data is lost. It just fails to surface an overwrite dialogue, and assumes the result is no.

dschuler 8y ago
I know you're saying this in jest, but the (US) government wrote code to fly to the moon and back, control robots on Mars, and model the earth (e.g. DoD's WGS 84, all the work by NIST, etc.). Sure, healthcare.gov was not a smooth rollout, but they do deserve some credit overall. Now Windows on the other hand.... I just set up Windows on a new laptop I bought recently.. just plain Windows as it shipped with my new laptop. Didn't do anything "outside the box" here. I've let it update after this fiasco was supposedly over, restarted - and, of course - can't boot, everything's corrupted, had to reinstall Windows from scratch. Never had this happen with macOS, FreeBSD, or Linux. It's hard to believe, but it really is _that_ bad. I wish it wasn't!
- ttty 8y ago
  Never happened to me with Windows. It's not the best, but works. Linux on the over hand it's a continuous installation of drivers and fixing functionality that works out of the box on my windows: graphics problems, audio, screen, usb, WiFi. Of course and then you try to install some module and says you have incompatible modules. Then you need to figure out what modules you need to change to match the version of the module to install. This was a few years ago, but I don't have the time to do this. Plus window management is broken on Linux, too many bugs. Last time I couldn't even alt tab like windows.
  - another-cuppa 8y ago
    > Linux on the over hand it's a continuous installation of drivers and fixing functionality that works out of the box on my windows Actually things are more likely to work "out of the box" on Linux if you're a bit careful with what hardware you buy. Windows is the one that needs drivers for just about everything. Linux has thousands built in. I haven't had to do anything after installing Ubuntu for years.
  - vetinari 8y ago
    I don't know, what exactly you are doing with your Linux installation, but you are doing it wrong. Try installing something released in last 20 years or so.
    - ttty 8y ago
      Just let version of Ubuntu and follow all the steps there. Just standard
  - lmm 8y ago
    Working out of the box is nice, but what's magically fixed can be magically broken just as easily. Traditional Linux was more work to get working, but once I got it working I could rely on it to stay working rather than getting broken in the next update. (Linux is no different from windows these days, so I've moved to FreeBSD).
    - ttty 8y ago
      I don't know, windows just works most of time just fine. Linux is way more problematic, that's why I just use Windows.
      - lmm 8y ago
        I find windows more problematic, because of the unpredictability. FreeBSD experience: spend a day or two setting it up, but after that you can rely on it always working. Windows experience: it works the first time, but every few months it will have an update that breaks things for a bit.
  - Shaddox 8y ago
    I tried switching to Linux again for desktop usage since Proton became a thing and I was tired of the weird new licensing model. Installed the new Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and after fiddling around for a week I still couldn't get my sound cards to work properly. The sound quality is just bad and the sound often cuts. Honestly if I had a little willpower I think I might have been able to get a satisfying result at some point but the effort just wasn't worth it for me. I use my home computer like 3-4hrs a week in the weekend for games and maybe hobby projects if I don't feel like dying. I'd rather just have something that plainly works in a predictable manner, but even that seems to be asking too much nowadays...
  - HelloNurse 8y ago
    You don't appreciate the difference between knowing what's happening to your system well enough to fix it and hoping that an "update" doesn't cause too much unrecoverable damage when it installs itself behind your back.
    - ttty 8y ago
      I just need to do some work, not fixing the os
- jowsie 8y ago
  >but the (US) government wrote code to fly to the moon and back, control robots on Mars, and model the earth I don't believe either of this where 100% bug free.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
da_chicken 8y ago
> If there's one thing the government is known for, it's writing bug-free, efficient software. That's because they're usually required to accept the lowest reasonable bid. As someone who works in the public sector, trust me, we try to get the money to people we know will do a good job. We have to work with the shit we buy every day. We want it to be good. There's just a lot of people willing to put in maximum of effort on a bid and minimal effort on execution. > Also, for real, this bug is not that bad. It's obviously a bug you'd rather not have. But no user data is lost. I mean, kind of. I agree it's not as bad as the article implies. However, it's a pretty common pattern to download a zip file, extract and overwrite, and then throw out the zip file. It's not directly resulting in data loss, but a very common user pattern will result in data loss when you encounter this bug.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > That's because they're usually required to accept the lowest reasonable bid. Lots of public sector bodies use best-value rather than lowest-bid procurement.
  - hyperman1 8y ago
    Not in the EU if you have to buy something expensive with tax money. Because the Public Procurement directive says you * are required to hold a public tender * Before you start, you create a list of criteria, with a weight for each of them. * 50% of the weight goes to price. * Once the process starts, common sense is treated as being bribed. Turns out it is very easy to be 50% cheaper than anybody else if you are not required to have a working product.
    - bmarkovic 8y ago
      As someone who had to deal with them from both sides, EU public procurement laws are fucked up beyond repair. There is, however, a simple cure for software that the public sector is avoiding in most places: 1. base the software on an established, battle-tested open source product, there is one for almost any business case 2. use the money to hire an in-house team, hiring norms in public sector at least ALLOW for quality selection, unlike public procurement ones 3. develop in the open, invest into visibility, attract community members 4. shill, try to get as many agencies across your and other member states to pick the same solution and co-develop the software with you, this way the cost drops for everyone Even if you can't find something to satisfy point 1., the other three points would still work to your benefit. If you can push this for long enough to make the software standard in more places, you could get a critical mass of outside developers to form consultancies you could hire later for additional work. I know Munich is poster-boy of this not working for desktop OS-es but that's really a consequence of two things: 1. They made all the wrong choices (heavy customization, chasing windows look and feel, not tracking upstream progress) 2. They got elected officials who were effectively Microsoft shills (the top-down decision to go back to Windows was heavily pushed by a single executive who was pissed off he couldn't use Outlook he was used to on his previous drone job).

dschuler 8y ago

I know you're saying this in jest, but the (US) government wrote code to fly to the moon and back, control robots on Mars, and model the earth (e.g. DoD's WGS 84, all the work by NIST, etc.). Sure, healthcare.gov was not a smooth rollout, but they do deserve some credit overall. Now Windows on the other hand.... I just set up Windows on a new laptop I bought recently.. just plain Windows as it shipped with my new laptop. Didn't do anything "outside the box" here. I've let it update after this fiasco was supposedly over, restarted - and, of course - can't boot, everything's corrupted, had to reinstall Windows from scratch. Never had this happen with macOS, FreeBSD, or Linux. It's hard to believe, but it really is _that_ bad. I wish it wasn't!

ttty 8y ago
Never happened to me with Windows. It's not the best, but works. Linux on the over hand it's a continuous installation of drivers and fixing functionality that works out of the box on my windows: graphics problems, audio, screen, usb, WiFi. Of course and then you try to install some module and says you have incompatible modules. Then you need to figure out what modules you need to change to match the version of the module to install. This was a few years ago, but I don't have the time to do this. Plus window management is broken on Linux, too many bugs. Last time I couldn't even alt tab like windows.
- another-cuppa 8y ago
  > Linux on the over hand it's a continuous installation of drivers and fixing functionality that works out of the box on my windows Actually things are more likely to work "out of the box" on Linux if you're a bit careful with what hardware you buy. Windows is the one that needs drivers for just about everything. Linux has thousands built in. I haven't had to do anything after installing Ubuntu for years.
- vetinari 8y ago
  I don't know, what exactly you are doing with your Linux installation, but you are doing it wrong. Try installing something released in last 20 years or so.
  - ttty 8y ago
    Just let version of Ubuntu and follow all the steps there. Just standard
- lmm 8y ago
  Working out of the box is nice, but what's magically fixed can be magically broken just as easily. Traditional Linux was more work to get working, but once I got it working I could rely on it to stay working rather than getting broken in the next update. (Linux is no different from windows these days, so I've moved to FreeBSD).
  - ttty 8y ago
    I don't know, windows just works most of time just fine. Linux is way more problematic, that's why I just use Windows.
    - lmm 8y ago
      I find windows more problematic, because of the unpredictability. FreeBSD experience: spend a day or two setting it up, but after that you can rely on it always working. Windows experience: it works the first time, but every few months it will have an update that breaks things for a bit.
- Shaddox 8y ago
  I tried switching to Linux again for desktop usage since Proton became a thing and I was tired of the weird new licensing model. Installed the new Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and after fiddling around for a week I still couldn't get my sound cards to work properly. The sound quality is just bad and the sound often cuts. Honestly if I had a little willpower I think I might have been able to get a satisfying result at some point but the effort just wasn't worth it for me. I use my home computer like 3-4hrs a week in the weekend for games and maybe hobby projects if I don't feel like dying. I'd rather just have something that plainly works in a predictable manner, but even that seems to be asking too much nowadays...
- HelloNurse 8y ago
  You don't appreciate the difference between knowing what's happening to your system well enough to fix it and hoping that an "update" doesn't cause too much unrecoverable damage when it installs itself behind your back.
  - ttty 8y ago
    I just need to do some work, not fixing the os
jowsie 8y ago
>but the (US) government wrote code to fly to the moon and back, control robots on Mars, and model the earth I don't believe either of this where 100% bug free.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

da_chicken 8y ago

> If there's one thing the government is known for, it's writing bug-free, efficient software. That's because they're usually required to accept the lowest reasonable bid. As someone who works in the public sector, trust me, we try to get the money to people we know will do a good job. We have to work with the shit we buy every day. We want it to be good. There's just a lot of people willing to put in maximum of effort on a bid and minimal effort on execution. > Also, for real, this bug is not that bad. It's obviously a bug you'd rather not have. But no user data is lost. I mean, kind of. I agree it's not as bad as the article implies. However, it's a pretty common pattern to download a zip file, extract and overwrite, and then throw out the zip file. It's not directly resulting in data loss, but a very common user pattern will result in data loss when you encounter this bug.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> That's because they're usually required to accept the lowest reasonable bid. Lots of public sector bodies use best-value rather than lowest-bid procurement.
- hyperman1 8y ago
  Not in the EU if you have to buy something expensive with tax money. Because the Public Procurement directive says you * are required to hold a public tender * Before you start, you create a list of criteria, with a weight for each of them. * 50% of the weight goes to price. * Once the process starts, common sense is treated as being bribed. Turns out it is very easy to be 50% cheaper than anybody else if you are not required to have a working product.
  - bmarkovic 8y ago
    As someone who had to deal with them from both sides, EU public procurement laws are fucked up beyond repair. There is, however, a simple cure for software that the public sector is avoiding in most places: 1. base the software on an established, battle-tested open source product, there is one for almost any business case 2. use the money to hire an in-house team, hiring norms in public sector at least ALLOW for quality selection, unlike public procurement ones 3. develop in the open, invest into visibility, attract community members 4. shill, try to get as many agencies across your and other member states to pick the same solution and co-develop the software with you, this way the cost drops for everyone Even if you can't find something to satisfy point 1., the other three points would still work to your benefit. If you can push this for long enough to make the software standard in more places, you could get a critical mass of outside developers to form consultancies you could hire later for additional work. I know Munich is poster-boy of this not working for desktop OS-es but that's really a consequence of two things: 1. They made all the wrong choices (heavy customization, chasing windows look and feel, not tracking upstream progress) 2. They got elected officials who were effectively Microsoft shills (the top-down decision to go back to Windows was heavily pushed by a single executive who was pissed off he couldn't use Outlook he was used to on his previous drone job).