4 ms·

From China, The Future of Fish

44 points by cwan 16y ago

w1ntermute 16y ago
Print version: http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/10_44/b4201088229228.htm http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/10_44/b42...
jon914 16y ago
What surprises me most about this article is that the author was able to gain some visibility (sugarcoated or not) into this industry, in China no less. Slaughterhouses and meat processors in the US, in particular, are notoriously opaque about their operations in a way that would make Apple's practices seem lenient by comparison.
- jakarta 16y ago
  One of the reasons might be that there are a couple of publicly traded 'aquaculture' companies in China that are kind of desperate to show that they aren't frauds. One is mentioned in the article, HQ Sustainable Marine. So typically if investors show up to these small companies, they will try to do whatever they can to take them around their factories and show that the business is real.
mattmaroon 16y ago
I just cooked this for dinner less than an hour ago. It's really not a bad fish. It's no Chilean Sea Bass, but it's light, never gamey, and you can eat it without worrying about it going extinct. I'd still take catfish over it pretty much every time if they were of equal quality, but you're often able to get tilapia that is considerably fresher.
- PakG1 16y ago
  I tried it back during my first trip to Sichuan in 2005. Luofeiyu, everyone seems to eat it there, at least in the rural part of Sichuan where I was. It was especially awesome barbecued with Sichuan spices. I think I liked it so much because it tasted unlike any fish I've ever had before. I used to live in Vancouver, so I like my fish. :)
ars 16y ago
From an ecological point of view this is good news. Unlike almost all food fish (which need to eat meat), tilapia eat plants. Almost all animals - except fish - eaten by humans eat plants, and now fish will join the list. By eating plants they are eating much lower on the food chain, this significantly reduces the impact and resources needed to grow the animal.
- netcan 16y ago
  I think most meaty fish food comes from by catch. naturally that can't replace fishing, but it's not like they compete with is for cows.
- konad 16y ago
  Here's a crazy idea instead of eating fish, eat soy-and-corn mixture
  - ars 16y ago
    Tilapia also eat algae. Are you going to suggest we eat that too?
    - konad 16y ago
      we could call it nori or agar http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/economicbotany/Algae/index.html http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/economicbot...
Groxx 16y ago
>Americans keep ordering more I hate statements like this, because they ignore the influence of what's being offered. If the fish are higher profit, many businesses will start selling them instead of better things which make them less money. >A decade ago, few Americans ate tilapia. ... Then demand surged in the wake of the Atlantic cod fishery collapse. Which caused Atlantic cod prices to skyrocket, I'd bet (I don't remember). Similar to how the oil spill caused shrimp prices to skyrocket. None of which implies anything about demand, merely supply. But "Americans keep ordering more" states a change in demand. "American companies keep ordering more" might be more accurate. Inundate the market with something non-offensive, and you're assured better sales than before. edit: Hah! >"China's track record in certain areas isn't perfect," says Bill Mardon ... He singles out Chinese processors' use of a glaze ... contains carbon monoxide, which preserves the color ... and can ... look fresher than it is. You mean like beef in America?
mark_l_watson 16y ago
Good article. My wife and I just got back from China and I noticed in the food markets that almost all seafood is sold live. Our guide said that is what consumers there demand.
- leokuan 16y ago
  That has a lot to do with the way they prepare most of their seafood dishes - steaming with mild seasoning. And since most people don't have access to ovens at home in China, steaming and pan frying are pretty much the only ways they do fish. They don't mind bony little fish so long the flesh tastes right which is crucial for steaming applications. That's why they demand live seafood. Us Americans on the other hand, when we think of fish, we think of fillets, with all sorts of crusts and glaze and whatnot, which often overwhelm the subtle taste of the fish itself.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
russellallen 16y ago
I read that through but still don't get why "environmentalists hate it"? Wouldn't farmed fish be preferable, environmentally, than continuing to trawl the ocean?
- panacea 16y ago
  The values prescribed to things by economists and environmentalists rarely align. From my understanding (admittedly, limited) both ocean trawling and aquaculture are both unsustainable. Over-fishing isn't sustainable, but that's what we're doing at the moment. Aquaculture uses 'earth' resources to farm fish, which includes fossil fuel expenditure for feeding and transport (based on current energy networks). It also produces waste products in the form of environmentally deleterious nitrogen-rich effluent which is out-flowed into the wider ecosystem. An economist might label that a better proposition. Generally less depleting of a finite resource... more 'taming' a resource and using other resources to enable that. An environmentalist would label both destructive (and while they're at it, the farming of methane emitting grain-fed animals for food is equally destructive compared to just eating the grains instead). Me personally? I'm going to continue to eat meat. Irrationally (from an economists perspective) I don't think I can enjoy eating ocean caught fish anymore though... it seems like we're really approaching the limits on harvesting that resource more than any other today. Farm-raised fish seem somewhat on the same scale of "bad for the environment" as eating steak (so I'm 'selfishly' ok with that). The fact that these fish don't have Omega-3 oils or are described as 'the tofu of fish'? ...makes me think we should probably just eat tofu instead.
- jon914 16y ago
  Some farmed fish requires fish to feed them, which is unsustainable in itself when you're feeding N pounds of other fish to produce 1 pound of the edible type. See: http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/thegreengrok/farmedfish-pnas092009 http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/thegreengrok/farmedfish-pnas092... Recently, I've seen more of a shift to grains, but that reduces the nutritional value of the fish.
  - netcan 16y ago
    Why would shifting to grains reduce the nutritional value of the fish? Is cat more nutritious than lamb?
jmm 16y ago
Tilapia and catfish are good fish to be eating over their carnivorous cousins (food input vs. food output), but the specifics of farm raising have something to do with an individual fish's greenness. In the end, I hope that we push up production of tilapia here in the US, and I'm excited by programs that blend simple aquaculture with more traditional green growing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qZPwBPAqks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qZPwBPAqks (Will Allen is a boss!).
barkingcat 16y ago
Chinese aquaculture is different from what you'd expect from a western / european / north american aquaculture operation. The food pellets that the fish eat contains antibiotics to stop disease, and estrogen/progesterone (via excess birth control pills rejected for human use from the large pharma factories) in order to make the fish grow faster. The fish grow in a chemical bath - containing both the minimally treated waste water from semiconductor / electronics manufacturing, as well as what's needed to counteract those chemicals. Don't believe me? If food companies in China can put melamine in baby powder in order to save a few cents, what makes you think they care about what they give to the fish?
- sanswork 16y ago
  Comparing another case with another company isn't really the proof you need to make people believe you. Once you provide proof of your actual claims we can all honestly believe you.
brianbreslin 16y ago
There was an episode of dirty jobs at a tilapia farm. The farm rotated Chilean sea bass, carp, and tilapia through pools as the tilapia basically cleaned the bass waste. They were using the excess water to irrigate plants in a desert at the end.
- brianbreslin 16y ago
  update here is the video link: http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/30832-dirty-jobs-striped-bass-farm-video.htm http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/30832-dirty-jobs-s...

44 points by cwan 16y ago

Print version: http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/10_44/b4201088229228.htm http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/10_44/b42...

jon914 16y ago

What surprises me most about this article is that the author was able to gain some visibility (sugarcoated or not) into this industry, in China no less. Slaughterhouses and meat processors in the US, in particular, are notoriously opaque about their operations in a way that would make Apple's practices seem lenient by comparison.

jakarta 16y ago
One of the reasons might be that there are a couple of publicly traded 'aquaculture' companies in China that are kind of desperate to show that they aren't frauds. One is mentioned in the article, HQ Sustainable Marine. So typically if investors show up to these small companies, they will try to do whatever they can to take them around their factories and show that the business is real.

mattmaroon 16y ago

I just cooked this for dinner less than an hour ago. It's really not a bad fish. It's no Chilean Sea Bass, but it's light, never gamey, and you can eat it without worrying about it going extinct. I'd still take catfish over it pretty much every time if they were of equal quality, but you're often able to get tilapia that is considerably fresher.

PakG1 16y ago
I tried it back during my first trip to Sichuan in 2005. Luofeiyu, everyone seems to eat it there, at least in the rural part of Sichuan where I was. It was especially awesome barbecued with Sichuan spices. I think I liked it so much because it tasted unlike any fish I've ever had before. I used to live in Vancouver, so I like my fish. :)

ars 16y ago

From an ecological point of view this is good news. Unlike almost all food fish (which need to eat meat), tilapia eat plants. Almost all animals - except fish - eaten by humans eat plants, and now fish will join the list. By eating plants they are eating much lower on the food chain, this significantly reduces the impact and resources needed to grow the animal.

netcan 16y ago
I think most meaty fish food comes from by catch. naturally that can't replace fishing, but it's not like they compete with is for cows.
konad 16y ago
Here's a crazy idea instead of eating fish, eat soy-and-corn mixture
- ars 16y ago
  Tilapia also eat algae. Are you going to suggest we eat that too?
  - konad 16y ago
    we could call it nori or agar http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/economicbotany/Algae/index.html http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/economicbot...

Groxx 16y ago

>Americans keep ordering more I hate statements like this, because they ignore the influence of what's being offered. If the fish are higher profit, many businesses will start selling them instead of better things which make them less money. >A decade ago, few Americans ate tilapia. ... Then demand surged in the wake of the Atlantic cod fishery collapse. Which caused Atlantic cod prices to skyrocket, I'd bet (I don't remember). Similar to how the oil spill caused shrimp prices to skyrocket. None of which implies anything about demand, merely supply. But "Americans keep ordering more" states a change in demand. "American companies keep ordering more" might be more accurate. Inundate the market with something non-offensive, and you're assured better sales than before. edit: Hah! >"China's track record in certain areas isn't perfect," says Bill Mardon ... He singles out Chinese processors' use of a glaze ... contains carbon monoxide, which preserves the color ... and can ... look fresher than it is. You mean like beef in America?

mark_l_watson 16y ago

Good article. My wife and I just got back from China and I noticed in the food markets that almost all seafood is sold live. Our guide said that is what consumers there demand.

leokuan 16y ago
That has a lot to do with the way they prepare most of their seafood dishes - steaming with mild seasoning. And since most people don't have access to ovens at home in China, steaming and pan frying are pretty much the only ways they do fish. They don't mind bony little fish so long the flesh tastes right which is crucial for steaming applications. That's why they demand live seafood. Us Americans on the other hand, when we think of fish, we think of fillets, with all sorts of crusts and glaze and whatnot, which often overwhelm the subtle taste of the fish itself.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

russellallen 16y ago

I read that through but still don't get why "environmentalists hate it"? Wouldn't farmed fish be preferable, environmentally, than continuing to trawl the ocean?

panacea 16y ago
The values prescribed to things by economists and environmentalists rarely align. From my understanding (admittedly, limited) both ocean trawling and aquaculture are both unsustainable. Over-fishing isn't sustainable, but that's what we're doing at the moment. Aquaculture uses 'earth' resources to farm fish, which includes fossil fuel expenditure for feeding and transport (based on current energy networks). It also produces waste products in the form of environmentally deleterious nitrogen-rich effluent which is out-flowed into the wider ecosystem. An economist might label that a better proposition. Generally less depleting of a finite resource... more 'taming' a resource and using other resources to enable that. An environmentalist would label both destructive (and while they're at it, the farming of methane emitting grain-fed animals for food is equally destructive compared to just eating the grains instead). Me personally? I'm going to continue to eat meat. Irrationally (from an economists perspective) I don't think I can enjoy eating ocean caught fish anymore though... it seems like we're really approaching the limits on harvesting that resource more than any other today. Farm-raised fish seem somewhat on the same scale of "bad for the environment" as eating steak (so I'm 'selfishly' ok with that). The fact that these fish don't have Omega-3 oils or are described as 'the tofu of fish'? ...makes me think we should probably just eat tofu instead.
jon914 16y ago
Some farmed fish requires fish to feed them, which is unsustainable in itself when you're feeding N pounds of other fish to produce 1 pound of the edible type. See: http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/thegreengrok/farmedfish-pnas092009 http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/thegreengrok/farmedfish-pnas092... Recently, I've seen more of a shift to grains, but that reduces the nutritional value of the fish.
- netcan 16y ago
  Why would shifting to grains reduce the nutritional value of the fish? Is cat more nutritious than lamb?

jmm 16y ago

Tilapia and catfish are good fish to be eating over their carnivorous cousins (food input vs. food output), but the specifics of farm raising have something to do with an individual fish's greenness. In the end, I hope that we push up production of tilapia here in the US, and I'm excited by programs that blend simple aquaculture with more traditional green growing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qZPwBPAqks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qZPwBPAqks (Will Allen is a boss!).

barkingcat 16y ago

Chinese aquaculture is different from what you'd expect from a western / european / north american aquaculture operation. The food pellets that the fish eat contains antibiotics to stop disease, and estrogen/progesterone (via excess birth control pills rejected for human use from the large pharma factories) in order to make the fish grow faster. The fish grow in a chemical bath - containing both the minimally treated waste water from semiconductor / electronics manufacturing, as well as what's needed to counteract those chemicals. Don't believe me? If food companies in China can put melamine in baby powder in order to save a few cents, what makes you think they care about what they give to the fish?

sanswork 16y ago
Comparing another case with another company isn't really the proof you need to make people believe you. Once you provide proof of your actual claims we can all honestly believe you.

brianbreslin 16y ago

There was an episode of dirty jobs at a tilapia farm. The farm rotated Chilean sea bass, carp, and tilapia through pools as the tilapia basically cleaned the bass waste. They were using the excess water to irrigate plants in a desert at the end.

brianbreslin 16y ago
update here is the video link: http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/30832-dirty-jobs-striped-bass-farm-video.htm http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/30832-dirty-jobs-s...