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Canada generally exports natural resources, and not much else besides assembled cars that we don't design. (We don't have a lot of high valued exports - highlig

Canada generally exports natural resources, and not much else besides assembled cars that we don't design. (We don't have a lot of high valued exports - highlighted by the odd trading relationship Canada has with China: they buy natural resources, and we buy finished goods from them, which is the opposite of most 'wealthy v. upcoming' trading relationships. Of course China overall is wealthy but per capita it's not) But what Canada does maybe the best in the world is 'boring, stable governance' - which is what so many people want. If the environmentalists would have it ... and I was King ... I would carve out an area on Vancouver Island and make it basically like Singapore - an open city state, that Canada manages, but basically for expats from anywhere. Anybody can come, keep their homeland citizenships, and live in a super above bar and stable regime. There'd be a few extra rules here and there, and they wouldn't be citizens - but they'd get what they want. This way you avoid the massively disruptive socioeconomic issues, and you can actually possibly create industry and a new kind of financial sector, and maybe a few added taxes to boot. Win Win Win all around. All complexities aside, BC residents would protest it to death merely on environmental grounds.

oh_sigh 8y ago
Paul Romer was supporting a similar idea to this a few years ago, but more as an engine for smaller, less developed countries to attract international talent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Romer#Charter_cities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Romer#Charter_cities
woolvalley 8y ago
So these people in Victoria #2 wouldn't be able to participate in the economy of the rest of Canada? They couldn't start corporations that could buy real estate, sell products and so on? What if they wanted to drive to Victoria #1 and go shopping?
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Canada still has a lot of immigrants, if they wanted to be Canadian, they could go that route. But citizenship should be more than 'access to real estate and shopping malls'. I'd simply make it so that residences (and real estate ownership), and maybe some other things like their financial positions (even like regular current accounts) are within the 'New Singapore' but otherwise they can go where they want and do as they please in Canada without any kind of border or whatever. And try to make a deal with US so that residents also have 'Canadian-like' access to the US, meaning visa free travel etc.. People who wanted to live in Van or Vic could apply for citizenship.
olvo 8y ago
> But what Canada does maybe the best in the world is 'boring, stable governance' - which is what so many people want. Seems like an odd basis for a highly experimental idea. The reasons they want to go to Canada is, as you say, because it is stable. China, and other parts of the world, is the experiment you are talking about.
- olvo 8y ago
  I forgot to never discuss things that require experiences on HN. A "special economic zone" or "special administrative area" is what is being suggested. Which is ridiculous because that is exactly what people moving to Canada are not choosing. What most people want is the inertia provided by Canadian society. That inertia is also what stops Canada from creating such projects. The Vancouver housing market isn't going to crash without hurting the Canadian economy and as long as you are a citizen you can ride it out. If you are in "district 2" not so much.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    " What most people want is the inertia provided by Canadian society" No - most wealthy people moving to Vancouver could care less about Canada really. They want a stable place to live and park their money - and a nice backup passport if things go crazy back home. They are not economic migrants, i.e. doctors and engineers looking for jobs - they are business owners parking their families and children and money in Vancouver. Economic migrants go to Toronto for jobs and opportunity.
iguy 8y ago
"boring, stable governance" as an export industry is a good observation. I think this is true of other places too, for example in London both the top-end property market, and arguably the City, are doing exactly this. It would be nice if they could figure out how to export this with fewer side effects. I don't quite know whether a city-state Vancouver is the right measure though. What does this solve compared to the status quo? Living in Vancouver is already unaffordable, but other places are not. Would such a setup lower the barriers for Chinese businessmen to buy a flat there very much?
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  " Would such a setup lower the barriers for Chinese businessmen to buy a flat there very much?" That's not a concern :) The issue is to provide 'stable governance' for those who need it, while protecting regular folks from massive inflation due to external factors. Vancouver's 'regular' (ie non construction) economy is being hurt by this - why? Because nobody can afford to live there on regular salaries. Very few entities would consider opening up an office where the 'prevailing wage' cannot attract people. Consider the 'cost' for buying property and who gains from it? The arbitrary owner. What if that 'cost' could be transferred by way of taxes, instead of property speculation? So a 'New Singapore' with land owned by the state and leased out for long periods, and a series of taxes to make sure the surpluses are mostly derived by the state and not property speculation. Surely it'd be expensive to live there, some kind of market function. But a small area could accomodate quite a few people. 90% of these major expenses are real-estate, and I don't mean development, I mean speculation. So this way - Canada can 'export' stable governance and protect local economies. If ex-pats want to move to Van they can get citizenship etc.. but that would slow down as it should be easier - and probably more convenient - to just move to the a new, well managed city state. A huge financial services sector would immediately pop up and there'd be tons of jobs there for those who wanted to work in that sector. Major private wealth management funds, with assets under Canadian domain, not PRC. Safe investments, safe place for domicile etc.. Great export :)
  - ttul 8y ago
    The former Liberal government looked seriously at changing the tax code to attract financial services types from overseas. The idea was to establish BC as a “Singapore of the North”. I wish I had a citation for this - sorry.

oh_sigh 8y ago

Paul Romer was supporting a similar idea to this a few years ago, but more as an engine for smaller, less developed countries to attract international talent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Romer#Charter_cities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Romer#Charter_cities

woolvalley 8y ago

So these people in Victoria #2 wouldn't be able to participate in the economy of the rest of Canada? They couldn't start corporations that could buy real estate, sell products and so on? What if they wanted to drive to Victoria #1 and go shopping?

sonnyblarney 8y ago
Canada still has a lot of immigrants, if they wanted to be Canadian, they could go that route. But citizenship should be more than 'access to real estate and shopping malls'. I'd simply make it so that residences (and real estate ownership), and maybe some other things like their financial positions (even like regular current accounts) are within the 'New Singapore' but otherwise they can go where they want and do as they please in Canada without any kind of border or whatever. And try to make a deal with US so that residents also have 'Canadian-like' access to the US, meaning visa free travel etc.. People who wanted to live in Van or Vic could apply for citizenship.

olvo 8y ago

> But what Canada does maybe the best in the world is 'boring, stable governance' - which is what so many people want. Seems like an odd basis for a highly experimental idea. The reasons they want to go to Canada is, as you say, because it is stable. China, and other parts of the world, is the experiment you are talking about.

olvo 8y ago
I forgot to never discuss things that require experiences on HN. A "special economic zone" or "special administrative area" is what is being suggested. Which is ridiculous because that is exactly what people moving to Canada are not choosing. What most people want is the inertia provided by Canadian society. That inertia is also what stops Canada from creating such projects. The Vancouver housing market isn't going to crash without hurting the Canadian economy and as long as you are a citizen you can ride it out. If you are in "district 2" not so much.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  " What most people want is the inertia provided by Canadian society" No - most wealthy people moving to Vancouver could care less about Canada really. They want a stable place to live and park their money - and a nice backup passport if things go crazy back home. They are not economic migrants, i.e. doctors and engineers looking for jobs - they are business owners parking their families and children and money in Vancouver. Economic migrants go to Toronto for jobs and opportunity.

iguy 8y ago

"boring, stable governance" as an export industry is a good observation. I think this is true of other places too, for example in London both the top-end property market, and arguably the City, are doing exactly this. It would be nice if they could figure out how to export this with fewer side effects. I don't quite know whether a city-state Vancouver is the right measure though. What does this solve compared to the status quo? Living in Vancouver is already unaffordable, but other places are not. Would such a setup lower the barriers for Chinese businessmen to buy a flat there very much?

sonnyblarney 8y ago
" Would such a setup lower the barriers for Chinese businessmen to buy a flat there very much?" That's not a concern :) The issue is to provide 'stable governance' for those who need it, while protecting regular folks from massive inflation due to external factors. Vancouver's 'regular' (ie non construction) economy is being hurt by this - why? Because nobody can afford to live there on regular salaries. Very few entities would consider opening up an office where the 'prevailing wage' cannot attract people. Consider the 'cost' for buying property and who gains from it? The arbitrary owner. What if that 'cost' could be transferred by way of taxes, instead of property speculation? So a 'New Singapore' with land owned by the state and leased out for long periods, and a series of taxes to make sure the surpluses are mostly derived by the state and not property speculation. Surely it'd be expensive to live there, some kind of market function. But a small area could accomodate quite a few people. 90% of these major expenses are real-estate, and I don't mean development, I mean speculation. So this way - Canada can 'export' stable governance and protect local economies. If ex-pats want to move to Van they can get citizenship etc.. but that would slow down as it should be easier - and probably more convenient - to just move to the a new, well managed city state. A huge financial services sector would immediately pop up and there'd be tons of jobs there for those who wanted to work in that sector. Major private wealth management funds, with assets under Canadian domain, not PRC. Safe investments, safe place for domicile etc.. Great export :)
- ttul 8y ago
  The former Liberal government looked seriously at changing the tax code to attract financial services types from overseas. The idea was to establish BC as a “Singapore of the North”. I wish I had a citation for this - sorry.