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The UK is an odd place at the moment. Brexit is almost too toxic to bring up in discussion: I think it's safer to discuss religion. I personally feel like a pa

The UK is an odd place at the moment. Brexit is almost too toxic to bring up in discussion: I think it's safer to discuss religion. I personally feel like a passenger on a train that has a 50/50 chance of derailing. I didn't choose to get on this train, and my time remaining to get off is running out very quickly. But I can't just get off because I have lots and lots of baggage. I can't hear the screaming in the driver's cab. Maybe there is no driver. All the posh people in 1st class keep going in to the cab to argue and decide my fate. All the other passengers are just drinking tea and enjoying the views of ye olde England.

tvanantwerp 8y ago
I'd say I'm riding a very similar train in America, if only we invested in such things.
- awakeasleep 8y ago
  It can certainly feel like that, but after looking into Brexit, I think we (USA) have things MUCH better. As much as Trump is loose cannon, our trade was based on the USA being the 'importer of last resort' and many of the changes we're making are not THAT extreme compared to history, or compared to other developed nation's existing rules. Plus we are the ones choosing to make these changes. With Brexit, GB has failed to make any sort of deal or even seemingly understand their negotiating position. The 'deal' they're eventually going to receive is 'having EU non-member rules forced upon them'. Furthermore, even if the USA did the same thing and pulled out of all treaties instantaneously with no forethought or negotiation, we're a big enough economy that other countries would be forced to negotiate. Check out the comparison of US and UK economies. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Economy http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-King...
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    The diplomats and Foreign Office well understood the negotiating position, and probable consequences. Which is why a selection of senior figures have resigned over the last two years. Just one example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839 Britain appears to have gone with the intent of negotiating by political dogma.
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      Yep. It's actually one of the main reasons I haven't applied to the Foreign Service. I think working as an FSO would be super neat and interesting, despite what all it entails, but I couldn't sign up to do it knowing what would likely be coming.
agumonkey 8y ago
Brexit is such an oddity. It was never 'real' and yet its drag is overwhelming.
KineticLensman 8y ago
> I think it's safer to discuss religion Totally agree. (Disclosure: I voted ‘remain’). If I do have to debate Brexit, I tend to focus on the massive opportunity cost [0] of the leave decision. To manage Brexit, the UK government has created a new department: Department for Exiting the European Union [1] which has ~650 full time employees, not including contractors and management consultants. Other existing government departments, and several companies, have staff devoted to developing Brexit plans and contingency plans. This need for people and their time will continue for years as new post-Brexit processes and laws come into effect. All this at a time when the UK has several problems that need to be managed, e.g. the NHS’s funding crisis, the lack of affordable housing, and many others. Front-line services (the UK term for actual police on the beat, nurses on wards, social workers who help the vulnerable, etc) have been dramatically cut over the last few years as a result of austerity spending, and yet we have had to create a massive number of posts and roles to manage the Brexit process. Vast amounts of parliamentary time are also devoted to managing Brexit (or not) rather than dealing with other problems. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_for_Exiting_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_for_Exiting_the_Eur...

tvanantwerp 8y ago

I'd say I'm riding a very similar train in America, if only we invested in such things.

awakeasleep 8y ago
It can certainly feel like that, but after looking into Brexit, I think we (USA) have things MUCH better. As much as Trump is loose cannon, our trade was based on the USA being the 'importer of last resort' and many of the changes we're making are not THAT extreme compared to history, or compared to other developed nation's existing rules. Plus we are the ones choosing to make these changes. With Brexit, GB has failed to make any sort of deal or even seemingly understand their negotiating position. The 'deal' they're eventually going to receive is 'having EU non-member rules forced upon them'. Furthermore, even if the USA did the same thing and pulled out of all treaties instantaneously with no forethought or negotiation, we're a big enough economy that other countries would be forced to negotiate. Check out the comparison of US and UK economies. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Economy http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-King...
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  The diplomats and Foreign Office well understood the negotiating position, and probable consequences. Which is why a selection of senior figures have resigned over the last two years. Just one example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839 Britain appears to have gone with the intent of negotiating by political dogma.
  - dorchadas 8y ago
    Yep. It's actually one of the main reasons I haven't applied to the Foreign Service. I think working as an FSO would be super neat and interesting, despite what all it entails, but I couldn't sign up to do it knowing what would likely be coming.

agumonkey 8y ago

Brexit is such an oddity. It was never 'real' and yet its drag is overwhelming.

KineticLensman 8y ago

> I think it's safer to discuss religion Totally agree. (Disclosure: I voted ‘remain’). If I do have to debate Brexit, I tend to focus on the massive opportunity cost [0] of the leave decision. To manage Brexit, the UK government has created a new department: Department for Exiting the European Union [1] which has ~650 full time employees, not including contractors and management consultants. Other existing government departments, and several companies, have staff devoted to developing Brexit plans and contingency plans. This need for people and their time will continue for years as new post-Brexit processes and laws come into effect. All this at a time when the UK has several problems that need to be managed, e.g. the NHS’s funding crisis, the lack of affordable housing, and many others. Front-line services (the UK term for actual police on the beat, nurses on wards, social workers who help the vulnerable, etc) have been dramatically cut over the last few years as a result of austerity spending, and yet we have had to create a massive number of posts and roles to manage the Brexit process. Vast amounts of parliamentary time are also devoted to managing Brexit (or not) rather than dealing with other problems. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_for_Exiting_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_for_Exiting_the_Eur...