2 ms·

So presumably you're going to provide us a list with human rights activists who have been killed in the same way? That said, I don't see what you're arguing her

by danso 8y ago

So presumably you're going to provide us a list with human rights activists who have been killed in the same way? That said, I don't see what you're arguing here. Is there any doubt that the murders of well-known people get more attention than murders of less-known people? And when a well-known someone is brazenly murdered in connection to the reason he was well-known, that the fame effect is amplified? What's your point?

mc32 8y ago
Not an activist, but the head of the Interpol was kidnapped (and currently whereabouts unknown) by his own country. Not a random person, but head of the Interpol. Don't see the same outcry. Also the Maltese journalist (Caruana) uncovering European dark money who was bombed --not much press.
- danso 8y ago
  There's not been the same outcry but there has definitely been coverage of the fact that Meng Hongwei had been detained by the Chinese government [0], just as there was when Fan Bingbing, "China's most famous actress", disappeared before recently announcing she had been investigated for tax evasion [1]. Should there be more outcry about the Chinese government detaining its citizens without transparency? Sure, but I think it's obvious why Khashoggi's case has received more attention. Not just that he died and his body is currently missing, but for the ongoing coverup. Also, both have at least been officially accused of crimes by their government, whereas Khashoggi AFAIK had not been at the time of his death. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/world/asia/china-interpol-men-hongwei.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/world/asia/china-interpol... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/13/world/asia/china-fan-bingbing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/13/world/asia/china-fan-bing... edit: Memories and perceptions vary, of course, but Caruana's murder from what I remember got a massive amount of attention in the media. The top Google result for "Caruana murder" are currently from the BBC, NPR, The Guardian, and the NYT. In addition, the "Forbidden Stories" collaboration was launched to continue her work: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/world/europe/journalist-murder-malta-eu.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/world/europe/journalist-m... > After her death, 45 journalists from 18 news organizations agreed to work together to pursue leads from her work on corruption and international money-laundering networks, as well as look into the circumstances surrounding her death. Forbidden Stories, an investigative nonprofit in Paris devoted to completing the work of jailed and murdered journalists, coordinated the collaboration, in which The New York Times took part. She was killed 1 year ago but her death still gets recent coverage, like this article from 2 days ago from the Committee to Protect Journalists: https://cpj.org/blog/2018/10/efforts-to-find-mastermind-in-murder-of-malta-jour.php https://cpj.org/blog/2018/10/efforts-to-find-mastermind-in-m...
forapurpose 8y ago
> presumably you're going to provide us a list with human rights activists who have been killed in the same way You are doubting that human rights activists are killed by governments?
- danso 8y ago
  Emphasis mine: > presumably you're going to provide us a list with human rights activists who have been killed in the same way The root-level comment [0] is speculating that there's "something different about this", because Khashoggi's death what seems like an inordinate amount of attention. I'm arguing that his alleged assassination is getting so much attention because of the egregious circumstances and coverup surrounding it. If it were the case that many, or even just a few other people have died under similar circumstances, only to be quickly forgotten, then it would strengthen the implication that the controversy around Khashoggi is partly concocted by some greater conspiracy. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18267858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18267858
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    I understood what you are saying, and FWIW I'm very glad Khashoggi is getting all this attention. But that doesn't make the parent wrong that Khashoggi getting attention disproportionate to similar crimes (and it doesn't demonstrate a conspiracy; IMHO he simply is more prominent and in many people's minds he is effectively an American journalist and/or represents American values). I assume you must be aware that horrible things like this happen to many people in many countries - and I wish they all got this level of attention. Just off the top of my head, in China there are people in Xinjiang in labor/re-education camps, people who disappear when they go to Beijing to petition the government, dissidents who the Chinese government kidnaps from foreign countries, etc. That's just one country; there's N Korea, Myanmar, Russia (all the murdered and imprisoned journalists and political opposition) and so many more. I'm not sure what you're really trying to say. Is the crime in Khashoggi's case qualitatively different? Because he was killed? While not everyone in every example I named was killed, certainly many are.
    - 8y ago

by danso 8y ago

mc32 8y ago

Not an activist, but the head of the Interpol was kidnapped (and currently whereabouts unknown) by his own country. Not a random person, but head of the Interpol. Don't see the same outcry. Also the Maltese journalist (Caruana) uncovering European dark money who was bombed --not much press.

danso 8y ago
There's not been the same outcry but there has definitely been coverage of the fact that Meng Hongwei had been detained by the Chinese government [0], just as there was when Fan Bingbing, "China's most famous actress", disappeared before recently announcing she had been investigated for tax evasion [1]. Should there be more outcry about the Chinese government detaining its citizens without transparency? Sure, but I think it's obvious why Khashoggi's case has received more attention. Not just that he died and his body is currently missing, but for the ongoing coverup. Also, both have at least been officially accused of crimes by their government, whereas Khashoggi AFAIK had not been at the time of his death. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/world/asia/china-interpol-men-hongwei.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/world/asia/china-interpol... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/13/world/asia/china-fan-bingbing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/13/world/asia/china-fan-bing... edit: Memories and perceptions vary, of course, but Caruana's murder from what I remember got a massive amount of attention in the media. The top Google result for "Caruana murder" are currently from the BBC, NPR, The Guardian, and the NYT. In addition, the "Forbidden Stories" collaboration was launched to continue her work: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/world/europe/journalist-murder-malta-eu.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/world/europe/journalist-m... > After her death, 45 journalists from 18 news organizations agreed to work together to pursue leads from her work on corruption and international money-laundering networks, as well as look into the circumstances surrounding her death. Forbidden Stories, an investigative nonprofit in Paris devoted to completing the work of jailed and murdered journalists, coordinated the collaboration, in which The New York Times took part. She was killed 1 year ago but her death still gets recent coverage, like this article from 2 days ago from the Committee to Protect Journalists: https://cpj.org/blog/2018/10/efforts-to-find-mastermind-in-murder-of-malta-jour.php https://cpj.org/blog/2018/10/efforts-to-find-mastermind-in-m...

forapurpose 8y ago

> presumably you're going to provide us a list with human rights activists who have been killed in the same way You are doubting that human rights activists are killed by governments?

danso 8y ago
Emphasis mine: > presumably you're going to provide us a list with human rights activists who have been killed in the same way The root-level comment [0] is speculating that there's "something different about this", because Khashoggi's death what seems like an inordinate amount of attention. I'm arguing that his alleged assassination is getting so much attention because of the egregious circumstances and coverup surrounding it. If it were the case that many, or even just a few other people have died under similar circumstances, only to be quickly forgotten, then it would strengthen the implication that the controversy around Khashoggi is partly concocted by some greater conspiracy. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18267858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18267858
- forapurpose 8y ago
  I understood what you are saying, and FWIW I'm very glad Khashoggi is getting all this attention. But that doesn't make the parent wrong that Khashoggi getting attention disproportionate to similar crimes (and it doesn't demonstrate a conspiracy; IMHO he simply is more prominent and in many people's minds he is effectively an American journalist and/or represents American values). I assume you must be aware that horrible things like this happen to many people in many countries - and I wish they all got this level of attention. Just off the top of my head, in China there are people in Xinjiang in labor/re-education camps, people who disappear when they go to Beijing to petition the government, dissidents who the Chinese government kidnaps from foreign countries, etc. That's just one country; there's N Korea, Myanmar, Russia (all the murdered and imprisoned journalists and political opposition) and so many more. I'm not sure what you're really trying to say. Is the crime in Khashoggi's case qualitatively different? Because he was killed? While not everyone in every example I named was killed, certainly many are.
  - 8y ago