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I don't think it's good enough to say « it's still on the shoulders of the city for choosing the vendors ». If I write a piece of software which is technically

I don't think it's good enough to say « it's still on the shoulders of the city for choosing the vendors ». If I write a piece of software which is technically capable of meeting its requirements if you read the manual carefully enough, but in practice the intended users can't figure out how to do so, that piece of software is no good. Similarly if the market is in principle providing IT vendors who are capable of providing a decent service, but in practice the purchasers can't figure out which ones they are or how to make them do so, the market has failed.

PakG1 8y ago
Do you have a viable method to fix the problems you describe? If not, then we're still left with it being on the shoulders of the city. Ultimately, it's really hard to police that the vendors don't make crap solutions. If the market fails to figure out which are crap, the market may have failed, but I don't have any ideas that would succeed better. Edit: and let me say that I posited that the issue isn't market forces. The issue is lack of expertise at decision making levels. Even if there were zero market, it wouldn't stop people from doing it wrong.
- mjw1007 8y ago
  Principally: start punishing the corrupt vendors; don't assume that reputation mechanisms will ensure that non-corrupt ones will eventually outcompete the corrupt ones. Just as you have to build software for the users you have not the users you feel you deserve, we need a service industry that works for the service-commissioning agents we have.
  - PakG1 8y ago
    Again... how would you do it though? Who would do the punishing? How would you enforce the punishment? Would clients build the punishment into the contract? Even if you could do that, the vendors have the advantage of how to construct the contract in their best interests and avoid punishment. Most ideas will go straight back to market forces. Again, the issue is expertise to choose good options, not the existence of market forces.

PakG1 8y ago

Do you have a viable method to fix the problems you describe? If not, then we're still left with it being on the shoulders of the city. Ultimately, it's really hard to police that the vendors don't make crap solutions. If the market fails to figure out which are crap, the market may have failed, but I don't have any ideas that would succeed better. Edit: and let me say that I posited that the issue isn't market forces. The issue is lack of expertise at decision making levels. Even if there were zero market, it wouldn't stop people from doing it wrong.

mjw1007 8y ago
Principally: start punishing the corrupt vendors; don't assume that reputation mechanisms will ensure that non-corrupt ones will eventually outcompete the corrupt ones. Just as you have to build software for the users you have not the users you feel you deserve, we need a service industry that works for the service-commissioning agents we have.
- PakG1 8y ago
  Again... how would you do it though? Who would do the punishing? How would you enforce the punishment? Would clients build the punishment into the contract? Even if you could do that, the vendors have the advantage of how to construct the contract in their best interests and avoid punishment. Most ideas will go straight back to market forces. Again, the issue is expertise to choose good options, not the existence of market forces.