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I think there’s also something else at play. Most of my friends also don’t believe for a second that a corporation has their best interests at heart. It’s not j

I think there’s also something else at play. Most of my friends also don’t believe for a second that a corporation has their best interests at heart. It’s not just promotions — it’s work life balance, it’s top-down decision making and political empire building, re-orgs every 4-6 months. The growth at all costs style of building companies chews employees up and spits them out.

stephengillie 8y ago
If a salaried worker doesn't get overtime, then every hour they work past 40 reduces their effective pay by 2.5%.
- siquick 8y ago
  Can you explain the logic behind this?
  - guu 8y ago
    If you work overtime in a week and aren’t paid for it then you have taken a pay cut for that week. You worked more hours but made the same amount of money. Therefore the amount you made per hour is lower than your usual amount.
    - Bombthecat 8y ago
      Bingo. That's what a lot of people don't get with there high salaries. On paper they sound amazing. But if you calculate hours worked and salaries. More often then not. There promotion for example made them earn less and less per hour. But as someone wrote on hackernews: if your company is using the emotional path they don't have anything to offer on the rational level. tl;DR: calculate your income per hour, not monthly salary!
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        > if your company is using the emotional path they don't have anything to offer on the rational level. Stealing this for my “don’t work for a startup” site!
        Bombthecat 8y ago
        It is not from me either :)
      - commandlinefan 8y ago
        * their
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  Not all hours are of equal value. If you have activities planned that you would like to do, such as excercise, cooking, childcare, education, hobbies, visiting family, etc, and you have to give that up because you had to work late, then the marginal cost of working extra is far more than just salary divided by total hours worked. Each hour past the agreed upon (or expected) # of hours cuts into your actual life, and is worth a lot more (to the person working). Too bad many people don’t see this or don’t have any options.
filmgirlcw 8y ago
Absolutely. Even if you love where you work, the corporation is always going to look out for itself first and foremost. It’s a lesson that can be especially hard to learn if you’re an early employee that grows or at a startup that claims to be different, but as cynical as it may be, the sooner workers realize that they are expendable, the better.
- filmgirlcw 8y ago
  I would also add that it’s not just corporations. A startup that goes from 9 to 300 people in your tenure doesn’t have your best interest at heart either. Before going to corporate America, I put my health, relationships, and personal life aside in place of the places I worked. For whatever reason, I thought I needed to do that and I thought it would pay off. Narrator: it didn’t. Now, that’s on me. My employers didn’t force that on me and my inability to say “no” is my fault, not theirs. But it taught me that I’m never not taking vacation ever again. I’m never making two connections to save the company $200 on a flight ever again (when others don’t and I’d still be in budget). I’m never staying late to do a job that isn’t mine because I’m afraid it won’t get done otherwise (it will. And if it doesn’t, it’s above my paygrade). That doesn’t mean I don’t work my ass off or give 100% (if not more), but it took me until my early 30s to realize that the company wont reciprocate my loyalty.
  - robftw 8y ago
    Can agree with some point -- but by definition, you are explaining exactly why you are definitely not giving 100% and then claiming you are giving more than 100%... lol.
    - riffraff 8y ago
      I would say there is "doing your job" and "overdoing" if you work 8 hours productively that should be the deal with your employer. Sure, if there is some crisis maybe stay a bit longer to help the team. But going out of your way to save the company money in transportation is a different kind of issue, and so is regularly overworking.
    - 8y ago
skookumchuck 8y ago
C'mon, does the DMV have your best interests at heart? Who really does, other than your close friends & family? It doesn't mean they're bad people, they're just people. Corporations and other organizations often are bound together by a common self interest. Besides, much evil in the world has been done by people with good intentions who actually believe they are operating in your best interests. I'll decide what's in my best interests, thank you very much.
- adetrest 8y ago
  The DMV doesn't (usually) lie to you or use things like "we're a family here at the DMV" to lean on you emotionally and get you to do things they'd like that don't benefit you at best or are detrimental to your health/finances at worst. Companies regularly do.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    Do you really believe governmental employees and the people who manage them have your best interests at heart? (Of course, they'll endlessly claim they do.) How about that guy that runs the FCC who ignores net neutrality sentiment? How about that county clerk a while back who refused to grant marriage licenses to gays? (Of course, she thought she was operating in the best interests of gays.) How about the police who confiscate your cash to fund their departments? Does the prosecutor who hides exculpatory evidence have the public's best interests at heart? There's nothing special about government organizations that make them operate altruistically.
    - Latteland 8y ago
      Ajit Pai is his own special kind of bad actor. Worked at the companies he now claims are good actors, lies about his motives. There's a case for arguing against net neutrality, like comcast does provide internet access for a lot of people and it works. But they do a lot of horrible shit (I HATE my bandwidth cap, and comcast is evil for lying, pushing legislation that only helps them and hurts individuals). But Mr Pai is way past that, basically lying about why he does things that are in no one's interest except big corps. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/08/ajit-pai-admits-fcc-lied-about-ddos-blames-it-on-obama-administration/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/08/ajit-...
liquid153 8y ago
Lol wonder if we work at the same ole big dusty corpo
kamaal 8y ago
>>a corporation has their best interests at heart. A corporation isn't a living thing to think about you. Its basically one boss, or at best a few of them, who think about you. The good news is if they like you, they'll do something for you, or at least can be made to do something. The bad news is let alone hating you, if they as much as don't think much about you, there is nothing much you can do but to leave.
- whatever_dude 8y ago
  This. I know it's not the norm, but I actually had jobs treat me very well in the recent past, and frequently give me unrequested raises. Last one actually left me baffled since it was so unexpected. I know I've been lucky, but I almost never had to ask for raises before. It really depends on the people and the size of the company.

stephengillie 8y ago

If a salaried worker doesn't get overtime, then every hour they work past 40 reduces their effective pay by 2.5%.

siquick 8y ago
Can you explain the logic behind this?
- guu 8y ago
  If you work overtime in a week and aren’t paid for it then you have taken a pay cut for that week. You worked more hours but made the same amount of money. Therefore the amount you made per hour is lower than your usual amount.
  - Bombthecat 8y ago
    Bingo. That's what a lot of people don't get with there high salaries. On paper they sound amazing. But if you calculate hours worked and salaries. More often then not. There promotion for example made them earn less and less per hour. But as someone wrote on hackernews: if your company is using the emotional path they don't have anything to offer on the rational level. tl;DR: calculate your income per hour, not monthly salary!
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      > if your company is using the emotional path they don't have anything to offer on the rational level. Stealing this for my “don’t work for a startup” site!
      - Bombthecat 8y ago
        It is not from me either :)
    - commandlinefan 8y ago
      * their
lotsofpulp 8y ago
Not all hours are of equal value. If you have activities planned that you would like to do, such as excercise, cooking, childcare, education, hobbies, visiting family, etc, and you have to give that up because you had to work late, then the marginal cost of working extra is far more than just salary divided by total hours worked. Each hour past the agreed upon (or expected) # of hours cuts into your actual life, and is worth a lot more (to the person working). Too bad many people don’t see this or don’t have any options.

filmgirlcw 8y ago

Absolutely. Even if you love where you work, the corporation is always going to look out for itself first and foremost. It’s a lesson that can be especially hard to learn if you’re an early employee that grows or at a startup that claims to be different, but as cynical as it may be, the sooner workers realize that they are expendable, the better.

filmgirlcw 8y ago
I would also add that it’s not just corporations. A startup that goes from 9 to 300 people in your tenure doesn’t have your best interest at heart either. Before going to corporate America, I put my health, relationships, and personal life aside in place of the places I worked. For whatever reason, I thought I needed to do that and I thought it would pay off. Narrator: it didn’t. Now, that’s on me. My employers didn’t force that on me and my inability to say “no” is my fault, not theirs. But it taught me that I’m never not taking vacation ever again. I’m never making two connections to save the company $200 on a flight ever again (when others don’t and I’d still be in budget). I’m never staying late to do a job that isn’t mine because I’m afraid it won’t get done otherwise (it will. And if it doesn’t, it’s above my paygrade). That doesn’t mean I don’t work my ass off or give 100% (if not more), but it took me until my early 30s to realize that the company wont reciprocate my loyalty.
- robftw 8y ago
  Can agree with some point -- but by definition, you are explaining exactly why you are definitely not giving 100% and then claiming you are giving more than 100%... lol.
  - riffraff 8y ago
    I would say there is "doing your job" and "overdoing" if you work 8 hours productively that should be the deal with your employer. Sure, if there is some crisis maybe stay a bit longer to help the team. But going out of your way to save the company money in transportation is a different kind of issue, and so is regularly overworking.
  - 8y ago

skookumchuck 8y ago

C'mon, does the DMV have your best interests at heart? Who really does, other than your close friends & family? It doesn't mean they're bad people, they're just people. Corporations and other organizations often are bound together by a common self interest. Besides, much evil in the world has been done by people with good intentions who actually believe they are operating in your best interests. I'll decide what's in my best interests, thank you very much.

adetrest 8y ago
The DMV doesn't (usually) lie to you or use things like "we're a family here at the DMV" to lean on you emotionally and get you to do things they'd like that don't benefit you at best or are detrimental to your health/finances at worst. Companies regularly do.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  Do you really believe governmental employees and the people who manage them have your best interests at heart? (Of course, they'll endlessly claim they do.) How about that guy that runs the FCC who ignores net neutrality sentiment? How about that county clerk a while back who refused to grant marriage licenses to gays? (Of course, she thought she was operating in the best interests of gays.) How about the police who confiscate your cash to fund their departments? Does the prosecutor who hides exculpatory evidence have the public's best interests at heart? There's nothing special about government organizations that make them operate altruistically.
  - Latteland 8y ago
    Ajit Pai is his own special kind of bad actor. Worked at the companies he now claims are good actors, lies about his motives. There's a case for arguing against net neutrality, like comcast does provide internet access for a lot of people and it works. But they do a lot of horrible shit (I HATE my bandwidth cap, and comcast is evil for lying, pushing legislation that only helps them and hurts individuals). But Mr Pai is way past that, basically lying about why he does things that are in no one's interest except big corps. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/08/ajit-pai-admits-fcc-lied-about-ddos-blames-it-on-obama-administration/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/08/ajit-...

liquid153 8y ago

Lol wonder if we work at the same ole big dusty corpo

kamaal 8y ago

>>a corporation has their best interests at heart. A corporation isn't a living thing to think about you. Its basically one boss, or at best a few of them, who think about you. The good news is if they like you, they'll do something for you, or at least can be made to do something. The bad news is let alone hating you, if they as much as don't think much about you, there is nothing much you can do but to leave.

whatever_dude 8y ago
This. I know it's not the norm, but I actually had jobs treat me very well in the recent past, and frequently give me unrequested raises. Last one actually left me baffled since it was so unexpected. I know I've been lucky, but I almost never had to ask for raises before. It really depends on the people and the size of the company.