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Agreed, traditional values are often seen through rose-colored glasses. We trade one set of problems for another. Domestic violence, unhappiness, worse economic

Agreed, traditional values are often seen through rose-colored glasses. We trade one set of problems for another. Domestic violence, unhappiness, worse economic outcomes absolutely necessitated women’s empowerment. I agree with all of your points, but wonder if we threw out the baby with the bath water in some ways. Like, in the past, traditionally defined gender norms left little choice for people who wanted something else for the lives. And now, maybe our newly constructed gender norms are restricting the choice for people who might want something else - something more ‘traditional’. My whole point is that people, men and women, shouldn’t be stigmatized for following traditional gender norms any more than they should be stigmatized for creating new ones, and I feel like that may not be the case today. All of this hinges on my initial point that lowered rates of fertility are caused more by culural reasons than lowered sperm count or the availability of abortion. I’ve got no real evidence to back that up, maybe it’s just plastic in our water. Doesn’t seem like any of the researchers in the article know either.

watwut 8y ago
My points were not about what who wants, but what happens after they get it. A guy may want traditional marriage, and still may grow resentful when it leaves him stuck in job he hates while wife does less and have additional demands on him at home. The wife at home won't really appreciate his issues, because she has zero experience with any of that. The traditional roles split worked as long as there was a lot of real home work and not much choice. Then it worked as status symbol for a while, but it was status wifes who eventually rebelled. Unmarried teenage pregnancy is not what people generally means when they talk about traditional role of gender. Unmarried pregnant teenager is better off now compared to whatever you means by traditional time. Large reason for lowered teenage pregnancy rates is sexual education - kids know about contraception and know to use it. Conversely sexual discussion being taboo in the past meant more teenagers pregnant.

watwut 8y ago

My points were not about what who wants, but what happens after they get it. A guy may want traditional marriage, and still may grow resentful when it leaves him stuck in job he hates while wife does less and have additional demands on him at home. The wife at home won't really appreciate his issues, because she has zero experience with any of that. The traditional roles split worked as long as there was a lot of real home work and not much choice. Then it worked as status symbol for a while, but it was status wifes who eventually rebelled. Unmarried teenage pregnancy is not what people generally means when they talk about traditional role of gender. Unmarried pregnant teenager is better off now compared to whatever you means by traditional time. Large reason for lowered teenage pregnancy rates is sexual education - kids know about contraception and know to use it. Conversely sexual discussion being taboo in the past meant more teenagers pregnant.