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This is the real reason fertility rates are dropping. Children are unaffordable in many places in the country and as work requires more out of all of us with st

This is the real reason fertility rates are dropping. Children are unaffordable in many places in the country and as work requires more out of all of us with stagnated wages, we don't have the time, money, or required health insurance to participate in raising a child. I'm late 20's and I want a child, but I just can't see myself ever being able to afford one. It's certainly a luxury to responsibly have a child.

jdhn 8y ago
>We don't have the time, money, or required health insurance to participate in raising a child. What would happen if 2 out of 3 of these issues were solved, or at least greatly reduced? In Europe they have much more generous maternal/paternal benefits, as well as universal healthcare. Yet despite this, their birthrates are even lower than ours.
- Pulcinella 8y ago
  I can’t speak for anyone but ourselves, but we would have more children if we have paid parental leave and universal healthcare (also free college tuition). Financial reasons are why we can’t have more kids.
  - burfog 8y ago
    It's a value choice you are making, and "financial reasons" probably have little to do with it. The money issue is an excuse. Europe generally has the paid parental leave and universal healthcare. Some parts even have the free college tuition. Where are the kids? People who focus on families don't need paid parental leave. There is a full-time parent permanently at home. Not that everybody needs to go to college, but that is often cheap if you start with a community college AA degree and then transfer to a state school. Most people don't have much of a healthcare problem.
    - toasterlovin 8y ago
      > that is often cheap if you start with a community college AA degree and then transfer to a state school And, you know, make your kids get a fucking job and pay for their own education.
masklinn 8y ago
> This is the real reason fertility rates are dropping. One of them at least, children are also fairly disruptive and a huge responsibility if you assume you're actually becoming responsible for the education and upbringing of a human being. Generally speaking mainland europe has low hospital bills, paid parental leave, subsidised daycare and education, but the fertility rates are still extremely low, and children are still horrendously expensive.
freeopinion 8y ago
Your opinion is almost certainly clouded by your particular circumstances. I will counter it with my own clouded opinion shaped by my particular circumstances. Children are not unaffordable. They require sacrifice. In my culture (within the U.S.) it is common to have 4+ children, often in single-income, middle-class homes. Raising 4-6 children on an income of $60K doesn't attract any attention at all. To read posts like the gp that claim they can't afford a single child seems ridiculous from my perspective. I grant that my perspective is ignorant of their specific circumstances. But my wife and I welcomed our first two children while we were starving college students making < $20K/year. I don't own a Tesla. My children have worked to pay for their college debt free (as did I). I don't have a home in the Hamptons. I don't live in California. I've never been to Europe. My kids haven't gone to Stanford. But I have the most amazing children in the world. I wouldn't trade any of them for a Tesla. Or a MBP. Or equity in whatever startup you are slaving away at. I am glad there is Tesla in the world, and people with MBPs. I don't think my choices are necessarily better than your choices. I don't regret my choices, and I flatly reject most claims by people that they don't have a choice.
- Ancalagon 8y ago
  Youre mentioning a lot of real luxury goods but these arent the costs OP is referring to I believe. Its more about the necessities in that regard for ensuring their children have a good future: healthcare, private schooling, a college tuition fund, etc. I agree a lot of people in this country spend too much on things they shouldnt, then complain they dont have enough for more of the essentials, but I think in this case the original point is valid: raising children in a metropolitan area is pretty expensive JUST for their necessities.
  - freeopinion 8y ago
    Please re-read my comment. My children have earned 3+1/2+1/4 college degrees, debt-free. I did not pay for that. They did. I expect at least 2+1/2+3/4 college degrees to follow. They went to public schools (+ 1 private college). They play violin and cello and bass and guitar and percussion and brass. They are insured. They played youth soccer, and high school sports. They have learned foreign languages. They've worked as janitors and at supermarkets and as research assistants. I'm not sure what "necessity" they have not enjoyed. Raising children in metropolitan areas includes raising children in Memphis and Dallas and Boise. It doesn't have to mean San Francisco. And for that matter, who says you have to raise children in a metropolitan area? That is not a necessity. As I wrote before, it doesn't bother me if you choose not to have children, or if you choose to live in San Francisco, or if you choose to raise children in San Francisco. It just bothers me to see the claim that it is impossible to provide the necessities to children today. Children are expensive. No doubt. That is true in NYC or the Himalayas. I believe that to raise a child properly will require sacrifices. That is true for a parent who makes $16K or $16MM. But I reject the claim for the vast majority of people that raising children properly is out of financial reach. When I read that claim from 20-somethings making twice my current salary, I shake my head. I translate that claim to, "I am not willing to give up my current lifestyle to have children." That is a much different statement.

jdhn 8y ago

>We don't have the time, money, or required health insurance to participate in raising a child. What would happen if 2 out of 3 of these issues were solved, or at least greatly reduced? In Europe they have much more generous maternal/paternal benefits, as well as universal healthcare. Yet despite this, their birthrates are even lower than ours.

Pulcinella 8y ago
I can’t speak for anyone but ourselves, but we would have more children if we have paid parental leave and universal healthcare (also free college tuition). Financial reasons are why we can’t have more kids.
- burfog 8y ago
  It's a value choice you are making, and "financial reasons" probably have little to do with it. The money issue is an excuse. Europe generally has the paid parental leave and universal healthcare. Some parts even have the free college tuition. Where are the kids? People who focus on families don't need paid parental leave. There is a full-time parent permanently at home. Not that everybody needs to go to college, but that is often cheap if you start with a community college AA degree and then transfer to a state school. Most people don't have much of a healthcare problem.
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    > that is often cheap if you start with a community college AA degree and then transfer to a state school And, you know, make your kids get a fucking job and pay for their own education.

masklinn 8y ago

> This is the real reason fertility rates are dropping. One of them at least, children are also fairly disruptive and a huge responsibility if you assume you're actually becoming responsible for the education and upbringing of a human being. Generally speaking mainland europe has low hospital bills, paid parental leave, subsidised daycare and education, but the fertility rates are still extremely low, and children are still horrendously expensive.

freeopinion 8y ago

Your opinion is almost certainly clouded by your particular circumstances. I will counter it with my own clouded opinion shaped by my particular circumstances. Children are not unaffordable. They require sacrifice. In my culture (within the U.S.) it is common to have 4+ children, often in single-income, middle-class homes. Raising 4-6 children on an income of $60K doesn't attract any attention at all. To read posts like the gp that claim they can't afford a single child seems ridiculous from my perspective. I grant that my perspective is ignorant of their specific circumstances. But my wife and I welcomed our first two children while we were starving college students making < $20K/year. I don't own a Tesla. My children have worked to pay for their college debt free (as did I). I don't have a home in the Hamptons. I don't live in California. I've never been to Europe. My kids haven't gone to Stanford. But I have the most amazing children in the world. I wouldn't trade any of them for a Tesla. Or a MBP. Or equity in whatever startup you are slaving away at. I am glad there is Tesla in the world, and people with MBPs. I don't think my choices are necessarily better than your choices. I don't regret my choices, and I flatly reject most claims by people that they don't have a choice.

Ancalagon 8y ago
Youre mentioning a lot of real luxury goods but these arent the costs OP is referring to I believe. Its more about the necessities in that regard for ensuring their children have a good future: healthcare, private schooling, a college tuition fund, etc. I agree a lot of people in this country spend too much on things they shouldnt, then complain they dont have enough for more of the essentials, but I think in this case the original point is valid: raising children in a metropolitan area is pretty expensive JUST for their necessities.
- freeopinion 8y ago
  Please re-read my comment. My children have earned 3+1/2+1/4 college degrees, debt-free. I did not pay for that. They did. I expect at least 2+1/2+3/4 college degrees to follow. They went to public schools (+ 1 private college). They play violin and cello and bass and guitar and percussion and brass. They are insured. They played youth soccer, and high school sports. They have learned foreign languages. They've worked as janitors and at supermarkets and as research assistants. I'm not sure what "necessity" they have not enjoyed. Raising children in metropolitan areas includes raising children in Memphis and Dallas and Boise. It doesn't have to mean San Francisco. And for that matter, who says you have to raise children in a metropolitan area? That is not a necessity. As I wrote before, it doesn't bother me if you choose not to have children, or if you choose to live in San Francisco, or if you choose to raise children in San Francisco. It just bothers me to see the claim that it is impossible to provide the necessities to children today. Children are expensive. No doubt. That is true in NYC or the Himalayas. I believe that to raise a child properly will require sacrifices. That is true for a parent who makes $16K or $16MM. But I reject the claim for the vast majority of people that raising children properly is out of financial reach. When I read that claim from 20-somethings making twice my current salary, I shake my head. I translate that claim to, "I am not willing to give up my current lifestyle to have children." That is a much different statement.