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I can understand (even if I remain skeptical) how Facebook and Twitter claim to be unable to deal with prolific abuse patterns, but how the hell does Apple writ

by paulgb 8y ago

I can understand (even if I remain skeptical) how Facebook and Twitter claim to be unable to deal with prolific abuse patterns, but how the hell does Apple write a $14MM check to a scammy top-100 app[1] without some human checking that it's legit? [1] https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/15/sneaky-subscriptions-are-plaguing-the-app-store/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/15/sneaky-subscriptions-are-p...

jjeaff 8y ago
Ya, it's pretty ridiculous. If they simply checked every app making even $1m a year, it wouldn't take them much effort at all.
always_good 8y ago
It's especially damning when the article points out that some apps were removed after the article-writer contacted Apple. Indicates that the process is clearly there at Apple, they just turn a blind eye. But wow, I expected a lot more from the billing UI of iOS apps. You can start a billing process just by making the user click a button? IMO everything billing should require a round-trip through a standard billing App Store page just like if you were to pay something online with PayPal. And I was especially amazed by how hard it is to see your subscriptions. I just checked mine and was subscribed to an app I completely forgot about. Think of the kind of UI you would design if you wanted to ensure people weren't making money from others unknowingly. You'd give Subscriptions its own tab in the App Store. You'd create notifications like "You just paid $5 to <App> (Recurring: weekly)". Even PayPal's app gets this right.
lacker 8y ago
Well, that’s probably exactly what happened, and now Apple is cracking down on this sort of app. They can’t just refuse to pay out that $14 mil to the app developer - these are bad user experiences that trick people into agreeing to subscriptions, but they aren’t clearly illegal. Apple does need to go through their own app review process when they want to boot an app, making sure there is a clear rule the app is not following.
- paulgb 8y ago
  It sounds like they're only cracking down after getting bad press. > They can’t just refuse to pay out that $14 mil to the app developer - these are bad user experiences that trick people into agreeing to subscriptions, but they aren’t clearly illegal. I haven't read the developer agreement but I'd be surprised if it's written in such a way that they don't have any discretion here. Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean it doesn't violate Apple's terms.
makecheck 8y ago
Yeah, and any developer making less than $14M (which is...like all of them?) continues to grit their teeth from rejected updates over minutiae and the virtual impossibility of browsing/searching sensibly on the App Store, among other issues. I mean, each passing month makes it more of a labor of love than a serious development platform. There are so many extremely obvious ways to scam money on the store, and yet you go through the wringer if you spend months or years meticulously crafting a well-designed app for peanuts.

by paulgb 8y ago

jjeaff 8y ago

Ya, it's pretty ridiculous. If they simply checked every app making even $1m a year, it wouldn't take them much effort at all.

always_good 8y ago

It's especially damning when the article points out that some apps were removed after the article-writer contacted Apple. Indicates that the process is clearly there at Apple, they just turn a blind eye. But wow, I expected a lot more from the billing UI of iOS apps. You can start a billing process just by making the user click a button? IMO everything billing should require a round-trip through a standard billing App Store page just like if you were to pay something online with PayPal. And I was especially amazed by how hard it is to see your subscriptions. I just checked mine and was subscribed to an app I completely forgot about. Think of the kind of UI you would design if you wanted to ensure people weren't making money from others unknowingly. You'd give Subscriptions its own tab in the App Store. You'd create notifications like "You just paid $5 to <App> (Recurring: weekly)". Even PayPal's app gets this right.

lacker 8y ago

Well, that’s probably exactly what happened, and now Apple is cracking down on this sort of app. They can’t just refuse to pay out that $14 mil to the app developer - these are bad user experiences that trick people into agreeing to subscriptions, but they aren’t clearly illegal. Apple does need to go through their own app review process when they want to boot an app, making sure there is a clear rule the app is not following.

paulgb 8y ago
It sounds like they're only cracking down after getting bad press. > They can’t just refuse to pay out that $14 mil to the app developer - these are bad user experiences that trick people into agreeing to subscriptions, but they aren’t clearly illegal. I haven't read the developer agreement but I'd be surprised if it's written in such a way that they don't have any discretion here. Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean it doesn't violate Apple's terms.

makecheck 8y ago

Yeah, and any developer making less than $14M (which is...like all of them?) continues to grit their teeth from rejected updates over minutiae and the virtual impossibility of browsing/searching sensibly on the App Store, among other issues. I mean, each passing month makes it more of a labor of love than a serious development platform. There are so many extremely obvious ways to scam money on the store, and yet you go through the wringer if you spend months or years meticulously crafting a well-designed app for peanuts.