13 ms·

One thing to bear in mind is that university success depends more on being compliant to authority than intelligence, at least until you get to the grad school l

One thing to bear in mind is that university success depends more on being compliant to authority than intelligence, at least until you get to the grad school level, and maybe then too.

claystu 8y ago
How in the world does "being compliant to authority" contribute to university success? What major emphasizes compliance over learning the material and doing the work?
- mylamename 8y ago
  I think the answer lies in your question.
- twtw 8y ago
  In my experience: You say, "I already know this stuff, can I just take the final?" Uni says, "this is a required course for graduation, you must take it." If you don't comply or push hard enough to make Uni comply with you, you don't graduate. This is how I ended up learning all about System.out.println my final semester of university.
  - claystu 8y ago
    I don't see anything in your response about success. It's true that if you want credit for completing a major, then it is necessary for you to actually complete the major, but that still doesn't equate to graduating at or near the top of your class.
    - twtw 8y ago
      perhaps I wasn't clear. I completed all of the courses for the major, with the exception of CS101, introduction to computer programming. I took many classes that ostensibly had a prerequisite on CS101, including additional nonrequired courses that could have easily been substituted for CS101. Nonetheless, as you say, it was "necessary for [me] to actually complete the major" by going back after taking CS4xx to complete CS101. Was this a required part of the major? yes. Was it a valuable part to be required without exception? Maybe, but I tend to not think so. > I don't see anything in your response about success "Not graduating" is a pretty clear way in my mind to "not succeed." I indicated that compliance to authority in my experience was necessary for graduation, which implies that it was necessary for success, does it not? > graduating at or near the top of your class ok?
    - esyir 8y ago
      Eh, I do see his point though. I've been in a similar situation myself due to a transfer once in the past where, due to university requirements, I had to take a module that I was uh, "overqualified" for to fulfill major requirements. I don't quite agree with his overall conclusion that university education is pure compliance off of this one gripe though. Moreover, I do believe that many universities allow you to bypass certain module via a test / some other demonstration.
      - twtw 8y ago
        > pure compliance off of this one gripe though I don't think it is purely or even mostly based on compliance. I was responding to: > How in the world does "being compliant to authority" contribute to university success by indicating one way the compliance contributes to success.
  - trashcan 8y ago
    My experience was: You say, "I already know this stuff, can I just take the final?" Uni says, "Yes, you can test out of it and get credit for the class." I was allowed to take the final for any class I wanted to and if I passed I would get the grade I got on the test. I thought this was pretty standard as I've seen it at multiple universities.
    - SamReidHughes 8y ago
      Well, letting you get credit is not universal, or maybe not common. They want you to pay them for your degree.
      - dorchadas 8y ago
        Yeah. I can't help but wonder if the parent went to a school that charges a set amount of tuition regardless of how many hours you take (with the exception of part-time versus full-time). My alma mater does that, and I was offered to take finals if I thought I already knew the material as well. Though it was just for credit, not grades; basically the equivalent of passing an AP test for that subject.
- howlgram 8y ago
  Completing assignments and tasks that are not about learning, as they are about compliance. Examples: attending class (big one), repetitive assignments, pointless assignments where learning is minimal but tedium is maximized.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
This is cynical in the extreme and essentially not true. Doing coursework and showing up for class, is not 'compliance to authority' - it's just the process - and fyi voluntarily chosen by the student in most cases. In most schools you don't even have to show up or do much frankly, you can just 'write the final' if you think you're a genius. The workload in most programs surpasses the ability of 'just smart' folks to wing it, and so grades are definitely a measure of conscientiousness behaviour in the student as well as intelligence. After 20 years of hiring I will take the 'good grades, reasonably bright' student, who was diligent and conscientious over the possibly genius person who didn't do much. 95% of even eng. work requires diligence, competence, focus, the ability to work with others, assumption of responsibility and a hint of leadership. I've never once seen a 'genius move' in my entire career where the totally brilliant dude made the difference. Maybe in some highly specific R&D things, but that's rare. I should add: that 'someone is good at University' doesn't make them a better person, it doesn't make the more creative, moral, more suited to a whole host of things, it doesn't mean they're geniuses etc. etc.. It mostly just means they are 'good at University'. Which might happen to be a good benchmark for 'good at being a white collar employee'.
- bobcostas55 8y ago
  There's a reason the process involves compulsory tedium rather than skill/knowledge certification.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    The process absolutely involves skill and intelligence and most of it is not tedious. Doing a few sample questions, trying to solve a quadratic is not 'tedious', for example. Neither is coding your first little program.
    - radiantswirl 8y ago
      Yeah but all the tedious hoops you must jump through to even get to that point are absolutely ludicrous and reveal college as the sheeple-manufacturing scam that everyone now knows it is.
mettamage 8y ago
I had a really authoritarian teacher that insisted to learn whatever I wanted and show 2 months later what I made. I learned iOS programming and sold an iphone app in that course and got a 90% grade. I had another really authoritarian teacher that insisted to follow the book by the letter. I got a 75% grade, I was sad I was aiming for 55% as a signal to say that he was a terrible authoritarian. Clearly authoritarian teachers should be the former, not the latter. However, some of my classmates begged to differ the exact opposite. Interestinglt enough, these are all true stories. I wish they were hypothetical.

One thing to bear in mind is that university success depends more on being compliant to authority than intelligence, at least until you get to the grad school level, and maybe then too.

claystu 8y ago

How in the world does "being compliant to authority" contribute to university success? What major emphasizes compliance over learning the material and doing the work?

mylamename 8y ago
I think the answer lies in your question.
twtw 8y ago
In my experience: You say, "I already know this stuff, can I just take the final?" Uni says, "this is a required course for graduation, you must take it." If you don't comply or push hard enough to make Uni comply with you, you don't graduate. This is how I ended up learning all about System.out.println my final semester of university.
- claystu 8y ago
  I don't see anything in your response about success. It's true that if you want credit for completing a major, then it is necessary for you to actually complete the major, but that still doesn't equate to graduating at or near the top of your class.
  - twtw 8y ago
    perhaps I wasn't clear. I completed all of the courses for the major, with the exception of CS101, introduction to computer programming. I took many classes that ostensibly had a prerequisite on CS101, including additional nonrequired courses that could have easily been substituted for CS101. Nonetheless, as you say, it was "necessary for [me] to actually complete the major" by going back after taking CS4xx to complete CS101. Was this a required part of the major? yes. Was it a valuable part to be required without exception? Maybe, but I tend to not think so. > I don't see anything in your response about success "Not graduating" is a pretty clear way in my mind to "not succeed." I indicated that compliance to authority in my experience was necessary for graduation, which implies that it was necessary for success, does it not? > graduating at or near the top of your class ok?
  - esyir 8y ago
    Eh, I do see his point though. I've been in a similar situation myself due to a transfer once in the past where, due to university requirements, I had to take a module that I was uh, "overqualified" for to fulfill major requirements. I don't quite agree with his overall conclusion that university education is pure compliance off of this one gripe though. Moreover, I do believe that many universities allow you to bypass certain module via a test / some other demonstration.
    - twtw 8y ago
      > pure compliance off of this one gripe though I don't think it is purely or even mostly based on compliance. I was responding to: > How in the world does "being compliant to authority" contribute to university success by indicating one way the compliance contributes to success.
- trashcan 8y ago
  My experience was: You say, "I already know this stuff, can I just take the final?" Uni says, "Yes, you can test out of it and get credit for the class." I was allowed to take the final for any class I wanted to and if I passed I would get the grade I got on the test. I thought this was pretty standard as I've seen it at multiple universities.
  - SamReidHughes 8y ago
    Well, letting you get credit is not universal, or maybe not common. They want you to pay them for your degree.
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      Yeah. I can't help but wonder if the parent went to a school that charges a set amount of tuition regardless of how many hours you take (with the exception of part-time versus full-time). My alma mater does that, and I was offered to take finals if I thought I already knew the material as well. Though it was just for credit, not grades; basically the equivalent of passing an AP test for that subject.
howlgram 8y ago
Completing assignments and tasks that are not about learning, as they are about compliance. Examples: attending class (big one), repetitive assignments, pointless assignments where learning is minimal but tedium is maximized.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

This is cynical in the extreme and essentially not true. Doing coursework and showing up for class, is not 'compliance to authority' - it's just the process - and fyi voluntarily chosen by the student in most cases. In most schools you don't even have to show up or do much frankly, you can just 'write the final' if you think you're a genius. The workload in most programs surpasses the ability of 'just smart' folks to wing it, and so grades are definitely a measure of conscientiousness behaviour in the student as well as intelligence. After 20 years of hiring I will take the 'good grades, reasonably bright' student, who was diligent and conscientious over the possibly genius person who didn't do much. 95% of even eng. work requires diligence, competence, focus, the ability to work with others, assumption of responsibility and a hint of leadership. I've never once seen a 'genius move' in my entire career where the totally brilliant dude made the difference. Maybe in some highly specific R&D things, but that's rare. I should add: that 'someone is good at University' doesn't make them a better person, it doesn't make the more creative, moral, more suited to a whole host of things, it doesn't mean they're geniuses etc. etc.. It mostly just means they are 'good at University'. Which might happen to be a good benchmark for 'good at being a white collar employee'.

bobcostas55 8y ago
There's a reason the process involves compulsory tedium rather than skill/knowledge certification.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  The process absolutely involves skill and intelligence and most of it is not tedious. Doing a few sample questions, trying to solve a quadratic is not 'tedious', for example. Neither is coding your first little program.
  - radiantswirl 8y ago
    Yeah but all the tedious hoops you must jump through to even get to that point are absolutely ludicrous and reveal college as the sheeple-manufacturing scam that everyone now knows it is.

mettamage 8y ago

I had a really authoritarian teacher that insisted to learn whatever I wanted and show 2 months later what I made. I learned iOS programming and sold an iphone app in that course and got a 90% grade. I had another really authoritarian teacher that insisted to follow the book by the letter. I got a 75% grade, I was sad I was aiming for 55% as a signal to say that he was a terrible authoritarian. Clearly authoritarian teachers should be the former, not the latter. However, some of my classmates begged to differ the exact opposite. Interestinglt enough, these are all true stories. I wish they were hypothetical.