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Photoshop has been around forever but I can't remember a time any forgery caused an issue publically.

by cm2012 8y ago

sleepychu 8y ago
Videos are so shareable though. The video will go viral before it's successfully disputed.
- thekingofh 8y ago
  Images are too.
  - barbecue_sauce 8y ago
    Probably even more so than video.
myownlittlworld 8y ago
Have you so quickly forgotten Emma Gonzalez? We don't need Deep Fakes to cause problems, regular ones will do just fine. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/emma-gonzalez-ripping-up-constitution/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/emma-gonzalez-ripping-up-c...
snowwrestler 8y ago
The public issue usually comes when the photoshopping is discovered. National Geographic got huge public pushback when it became clear that they had "moved" Egypt's pyramids for a cover. And Iran came in for mockery when it became clear that they had photoshopped extra missiles into a launch photo. Forgeries are hugely risky for legitimate organizations; if discovered, the backlash can hurt them quite a bit. Fringe, extremist, criminal elements have used forgeries to further their goals, and they will do so with "deep fake" videos too. But our society is dominated by organizations that run on trust. And those organizations will have to quickly learn (indeed, they are learning now) how to distinguish and filter out the deep fakes. Just like they did with fake letters, fake signatures, and fake photos.
- mey 8y ago
  Or Russian news channel using Arma (video game) footage as if it was real combat footage.
dguo 8y ago
Even if they haven't caused any obvious crisis, fake images do go viral. It's human nature to trust what you see, and it takes effort to maintain skepticism. Exhibit 1: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fake-news-trump-flood-victims_us_5ba9419fe4b0375f8f9fa5f2 https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fake-news-trump-flood... Exhibit 2: https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/us/emma-gonzalez-photo-doctored-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/us/emma-gonzalez-photo-doctor...
phyller 8y ago
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11233420/Russian-pictures-of-MH17-being-shot-by-Ukrainian-jet-fake.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11... I'd say that was a pretty big deal (Russians providing a "satellite image" showing a Ukrainian fighter plane shooting down a commercial airliner). Bad actors use this kind of technology whenever they think they can get away with it. As someone else mentioned, they've used video game footage and pretended it was actual combat footage.
currymj 8y ago
i also can’t think of a case where a forgery has caused a serious problem in the public sphere. however, there are tons of gullible and/or wilfully stupid people who respond to photoshopped pictures on social media as if they are real. especially when these images are politically charged, some of them probably believe it and some “believe” because it fits their world view and makes them feel righteous.
- jcoffland 8y ago
  > i also can’t think of a case where a forgery has caused a serious problem in the public sphere. You're not paying attention then. Here's just one example. https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4333499/india-whatsapp-lynchings-child-kidnappers-fake-news/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4333499/indi...
  - currymj 8y ago
    right, isolated small groups or individuals believe the fake videos (or "believe" them, it's possible some of these groups were already looking for an excuse for violence). but it's not really the public sphere -- there is no nationwide uncertainty about these videos. the police understand perfectly that they are fake, for instance.
avivo 8y ago
Forgeries have had significant impacts. Everything from beef being photoshopped into meals leading to violence (e.g. in Hindu regions), to significantly impacting the burden of proof required for prosecution of war crimes.
tw1010 8y ago
Yeah, this is why I'm not worried one iota about deepfakes. Say what you will about fake news, but blantant lies like a faked video or image generally does not get through journalistic filters. Something big like a fake video of a celebrity or a president would very unlikely be published (and if it grew viral through some disingenuous source, its spread would be severely dampened by trusted newssites warning the public not to believe it). I mean just look at the subsequent backlash after oobah butler's pranks. Sure, his prank fooled the news, but it's effects were totally nil in the long-term steady state.
- jcoffland 8y ago
  What about the likely fake Chinese spy chip news put out recently by Blomberg? The pictures of the spy chip that this supposedly reputable news agency plastered all over the Internet have been shown to be nothing more than a bog standard filter chip they found on Mouser Electronics' website. Fake news is not automatically distinguishable from real news regardless of the source.
- chrisco255 8y ago
  You realize that a very small minority of the overall population even watches news or pays much attention to it, right? A well-timed fake video could cause a riot, erode trust in institutions, antagonize relationships, and disrupt the social fabric. It will become even more apparent when the population is primed to believe it, pick your hot button issue of the day and some significant portion of the population would absolutely believe a fake video depicting the opposing party doing something horrible, without pausing to reflect. Even seemingly harmless caricatures, like Tina Fey's infamous SNL skit of Sarah Palin ("I can see Russia from my house"), have a long term affect on people's perception of reality: http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/59838/1/USAPP_Blog_In_politics_caricatures_can_become_facts_Cacciatore.pdf http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/59838/1/USAPP_Blog_In_politics_cari... In that paper a survey found that 7 in 10 Americans believed that Palin actually said that. The mass production of deep fakes will have a deep and profound impact on society. I'm not keen on where this is heading.
- CM30 8y ago
  Depends how good the journalistic filters are. Would these deepfakes get through the ones for the New York Times or BBC or Telegraph? Maybe not, but I have no doubt they'd fool the tabloid papers, especially given how low the standards are for stuff like the Sun/Daily Mirror/Daily Star/etc. They'd also likely fool quite a few specialist sites too, especially given the likes of the gaming press have very low standards for credible sources or evidence. People on Twitter have fooled them with blurry cellphone photos on a semi regular basis. But it definitely depends on the news source and how thorough they are with verifying stories.

Photoshop has been around forever but I can't remember a time any forgery caused an issue publically.

by cm2012 8y ago

Photoshop has been around forever but I can't remember a time any forgery caused an issue publically.

sleepychu 8y ago

Videos are so shareable though. The video will go viral before it's successfully disputed.

thekingofh 8y ago
Images are too.
- barbecue_sauce 8y ago
  Probably even more so than video.

myownlittlworld 8y ago

Have you so quickly forgotten Emma Gonzalez? We don't need Deep Fakes to cause problems, regular ones will do just fine. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/emma-gonzalez-ripping-up-constitution/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/emma-gonzalez-ripping-up-c...

snowwrestler 8y ago

The public issue usually comes when the photoshopping is discovered. National Geographic got huge public pushback when it became clear that they had "moved" Egypt's pyramids for a cover. And Iran came in for mockery when it became clear that they had photoshopped extra missiles into a launch photo. Forgeries are hugely risky for legitimate organizations; if discovered, the backlash can hurt them quite a bit. Fringe, extremist, criminal elements have used forgeries to further their goals, and they will do so with "deep fake" videos too. But our society is dominated by organizations that run on trust. And those organizations will have to quickly learn (indeed, they are learning now) how to distinguish and filter out the deep fakes. Just like they did with fake letters, fake signatures, and fake photos.

mey 8y ago
Or Russian news channel using Arma (video game) footage as if it was real combat footage.

dguo 8y ago

Even if they haven't caused any obvious crisis, fake images do go viral. It's human nature to trust what you see, and it takes effort to maintain skepticism. Exhibit 1: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fake-news-trump-flood-victims_us_5ba9419fe4b0375f8f9fa5f2 https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fake-news-trump-flood... Exhibit 2: https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/us/emma-gonzalez-photo-doctored-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/us/emma-gonzalez-photo-doctor...

phyller 8y ago

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11233420/Russian-pictures-of-MH17-being-shot-by-Ukrainian-jet-fake.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11... I'd say that was a pretty big deal (Russians providing a "satellite image" showing a Ukrainian fighter plane shooting down a commercial airliner). Bad actors use this kind of technology whenever they think they can get away with it. As someone else mentioned, they've used video game footage and pretended it was actual combat footage.

currymj 8y ago

i also can’t think of a case where a forgery has caused a serious problem in the public sphere. however, there are tons of gullible and/or wilfully stupid people who respond to photoshopped pictures on social media as if they are real. especially when these images are politically charged, some of them probably believe it and some “believe” because it fits their world view and makes them feel righteous.

jcoffland 8y ago
> i also can’t think of a case where a forgery has caused a serious problem in the public sphere. You're not paying attention then. Here's just one example. https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4333499/india-whatsapp-lynchings-child-kidnappers-fake-news/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4333499/indi...
- currymj 8y ago
  right, isolated small groups or individuals believe the fake videos (or "believe" them, it's possible some of these groups were already looking for an excuse for violence). but it's not really the public sphere -- there is no nationwide uncertainty about these videos. the police understand perfectly that they are fake, for instance.

avivo 8y ago

Forgeries have had significant impacts. Everything from beef being photoshopped into meals leading to violence (e.g. in Hindu regions), to significantly impacting the burden of proof required for prosecution of war crimes.

tw1010 8y ago

Yeah, this is why I'm not worried one iota about deepfakes. Say what you will about fake news, but blantant lies like a faked video or image generally does not get through journalistic filters. Something big like a fake video of a celebrity or a president would very unlikely be published (and if it grew viral through some disingenuous source, its spread would be severely dampened by trusted newssites warning the public not to believe it). I mean just look at the subsequent backlash after oobah butler's pranks. Sure, his prank fooled the news, but it's effects were totally nil in the long-term steady state.

jcoffland 8y ago
What about the likely fake Chinese spy chip news put out recently by Blomberg? The pictures of the spy chip that this supposedly reputable news agency plastered all over the Internet have been shown to be nothing more than a bog standard filter chip they found on Mouser Electronics' website. Fake news is not automatically distinguishable from real news regardless of the source.
chrisco255 8y ago
You realize that a very small minority of the overall population even watches news or pays much attention to it, right? A well-timed fake video could cause a riot, erode trust in institutions, antagonize relationships, and disrupt the social fabric. It will become even more apparent when the population is primed to believe it, pick your hot button issue of the day and some significant portion of the population would absolutely believe a fake video depicting the opposing party doing something horrible, without pausing to reflect. Even seemingly harmless caricatures, like Tina Fey's infamous SNL skit of Sarah Palin ("I can see Russia from my house"), have a long term affect on people's perception of reality: http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/59838/1/USAPP_Blog_In_politics_caricatures_can_become_facts_Cacciatore.pdf http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/59838/1/USAPP_Blog_In_politics_cari... In that paper a survey found that 7 in 10 Americans believed that Palin actually said that. The mass production of deep fakes will have a deep and profound impact on society. I'm not keen on where this is heading.
CM30 8y ago
Depends how good the journalistic filters are. Would these deepfakes get through the ones for the New York Times or BBC or Telegraph? Maybe not, but I have no doubt they'd fool the tabloid papers, especially given how low the standards are for stuff like the Sun/Daily Mirror/Daily Star/etc. They'd also likely fool quite a few specialist sites too, especially given the likes of the gaming press have very low standards for credible sources or evidence. People on Twitter have fooled them with blurry cellphone photos on a semi regular basis. But it definitely depends on the news source and how thorough they are with verifying stories.