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> A recent experience from a hackerspace showed me how incredibly thankless people can be. After working really insanely hard to build an inclusive space with l

> A recent experience from a hackerspace showed me how incredibly thankless people can be. After working really insanely hard to build an inclusive space with loads of features, every little hobby revolutionary in the community just shits all over the work and proclaims the people actually getting stuff done should just stop and leave it to them. They are clueless. It's like when developers on HN share all their ideas about being a manager and what's required.

smnrchrds 8y ago
So doubling or tripling everyone's salaries, making workweeks 4 days of 6 hours each, and firing all business and management majors and replacing them with engineers is not the path to a successful company?
- late2part 8y ago
  it worked for Google....
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    And if you ever have the opportunity to start a company at the dawn of a fundamentally new era of global economic activity, it might work for you too. Most people are likely more interested in what will work now however.
  - PakG1 8y ago
    Did it? https://www.businessinsider.com/larry-page-the-untold-story-2014-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/larry-page-the-untold-story-... https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-google-sold-its-engineers-on-management https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-google-sold-its-engineers-on-man...
  - late2part 8y ago
    I forgot to point out that this is tongue in cheek, lingua in maxillam as it were...
wiz21c 8y ago
I'd be more interested on the "why being a manager". Considering how shitty the atmosphere seems, I wonder why people want to be managers at all...
- gambiting 8y ago
  From experience - because you can only get your salary to a certain level as a programmer before hitting a brick wall. To go higher you need to take on at least some managerial responsibilities - it's not at every company, but it's common enough.
- cannonedhamster 8y ago
  For me, I really enjoy helping people grow into their best selves. A lot of that means protecting them from politics and giving them the space to do their jobs effectively, make mistakes, learn and grow. It really isn't for everyone, because there's a lot less tangible rewards and the payoff can be pretty long tail, but when you can see potential in someone and then see them grow into that potential, it's a really fulfilling experience. Basically I saw that things could be better and I chose to be that better, I had a lot of amazing people that took a chance on me as well, so I owe it to them to pay it forward.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    Yeah I'm not a manager, but this is exactly why the role appeals to me as a long term career option.
  - wiz21c 8y ago
    I'm a manager too (my question was refering to a manager as a boss of a business, which is vastly different). What you say is very true, except when your team is a bunch of people who positively don't want to grow, they just want the paycheck and the minimum trouble possible. You're basically managing to make sure the comfort zone doesn't grow. And that's as tough as it is boring. I have nothing against the comfort zone, that's perfectly human. But not every team member want to grow. (me realizes that maybe I has a cultural issue with the company :-))

smnrchrds 8y ago

So doubling or tripling everyone's salaries, making workweeks 4 days of 6 hours each, and firing all business and management majors and replacing them with engineers is not the path to a successful company?

late2part 8y ago
it worked for Google....
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  And if you ever have the opportunity to start a company at the dawn of a fundamentally new era of global economic activity, it might work for you too. Most people are likely more interested in what will work now however.
- PakG1 8y ago
  Did it? https://www.businessinsider.com/larry-page-the-untold-story-2014-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/larry-page-the-untold-story-... https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-google-sold-its-engineers-on-management https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-google-sold-its-engineers-on-man...
- late2part 8y ago
  I forgot to point out that this is tongue in cheek, lingua in maxillam as it were...

wiz21c 8y ago

I'd be more interested on the "why being a manager". Considering how shitty the atmosphere seems, I wonder why people want to be managers at all...

gambiting 8y ago
From experience - because you can only get your salary to a certain level as a programmer before hitting a brick wall. To go higher you need to take on at least some managerial responsibilities - it's not at every company, but it's common enough.
cannonedhamster 8y ago
For me, I really enjoy helping people grow into their best selves. A lot of that means protecting them from politics and giving them the space to do their jobs effectively, make mistakes, learn and grow. It really isn't for everyone, because there's a lot less tangible rewards and the payoff can be pretty long tail, but when you can see potential in someone and then see them grow into that potential, it's a really fulfilling experience. Basically I saw that things could be better and I chose to be that better, I had a lot of amazing people that took a chance on me as well, so I owe it to them to pay it forward.
- ummonk 8y ago
  Yeah I'm not a manager, but this is exactly why the role appeals to me as a long term career option.
- wiz21c 8y ago
  I'm a manager too (my question was refering to a manager as a boss of a business, which is vastly different). What you say is very true, except when your team is a bunch of people who positively don't want to grow, they just want the paycheck and the minimum trouble possible. You're basically managing to make sure the comfort zone doesn't grow. And that's as tough as it is boring. I have nothing against the comfort zone, that's perfectly human. But not every team member want to grow. (me realizes that maybe I has a cultural issue with the company :-))