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> I think we are going to need laws against big cooperations using their power and tech to change socal constructs. Maintaining such constructs is as much a us

by stfwn 8y ago

> I think we are going to need laws against big cooperations using their power and tech to change socal constructs. Maintaining such constructs is as much a use of power as changing them is. It’s completely impossible to outlaw a corporation’s or any agent’s influence on society. ‘Society’ as we think of it (the nation, a community, bureaucracy, you name it) itself is a massive construct with tons of subjectivity attached. > I don't need or want to be unconsciously retrained by ML. If it’s a thing in your world, which it probably already is, it will have an influence on you. This type of research is how we make that visible. IMHO the social sciences are a good thing.

smhost 8y ago
> It’s completely impossible to outlaw a corporation’s or any agent’s influence on society. Honestly. We would have to ban all marketing and mass media. The only other solution I can think of is to subject all relevant industries to some democratic process, and I don't think anybody really wants that.
- mbrumlow 8y ago
  I am down for a ban on all marketing and mass media :p But really, think there is a difference in trying to get me to buy your microwave and a small group of people attempting to retrain the masses on social issues -- according to their views -- "for the good of everybody". It's really hard for me to understand how anybody can think it would be good for any small group, no matter how much good they think they are doing, or how pure their intent is to have the power to change the masses, little alone be allowed to use such power. Things are complicated one wrong step and these people can break society.
  - smhost 8y ago
    Ultimately I agree with you, I don't think this is a good thing. But I just don't see a way that we as a society can realistically address the problem of a few powerful entities having a disproportionate influence on mass culture, because that has already been happening long before google was around. You're basically wanting to eliminate large-scale propaganda, social engineering, and eliminate the culture industry. That's not going to happen.

by stfwn 8y ago

smhost 8y ago

> It’s completely impossible to outlaw a corporation’s or any agent’s influence on society. Honestly. We would have to ban all marketing and mass media. The only other solution I can think of is to subject all relevant industries to some democratic process, and I don't think anybody really wants that.

mbrumlow 8y ago
I am down for a ban on all marketing and mass media :p But really, think there is a difference in trying to get me to buy your microwave and a small group of people attempting to retrain the masses on social issues -- according to their views -- "for the good of everybody". It's really hard for me to understand how anybody can think it would be good for any small group, no matter how much good they think they are doing, or how pure their intent is to have the power to change the masses, little alone be allowed to use such power. Things are complicated one wrong step and these people can break society.
- smhost 8y ago
  Ultimately I agree with you, I don't think this is a good thing. But I just don't see a way that we as a society can realistically address the problem of a few powerful entities having a disproportionate influence on mass culture, because that has already been happening long before google was around. You're basically wanting to eliminate large-scale propaganda, social engineering, and eliminate the culture industry. That's not going to happen.