4 ms·

I appreciate your reply. If I can paraphrase your first point, people eat meat because they enjoy it, and that's that. I'm curious what your source is for sayi

by latch 8y ago

I appreciate your reply. If I can paraphrase your first point, people eat meat because they enjoy it, and that's that. I'm curious what your source is for saying a vegetarian diet isn't optimal. Most studies I've seen (including large and long studies) claim the opposite. Here's a list: [1] I agree it's like sweatshops. I didn't want to draw the comparison to slavery because I think the ethical question stands on its own, but maybe you're right to point out that it's the same driving impulse. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian_nutrition#Health_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian_nutrition#Health_ef...

sokoloff 8y ago
I readily agree that the people I know who are vegetarian are, as a cohort, seem healthier, more active, and happier than the randomly selected American. What I can't readily conclude is cause and effect. I haven't seen many (any?) studies that effectively isolate vegetarian diet in humans from confounding factors as mentioned in the first paragraph of the wikipedia link you provided. I've yet to meet a vegetarian who sits on the couch all day, smoking, eating fries, chips and candy, drinking beer and watching TV. I've met plenty of others who fall fairly close to that stereotype and I'll readily admit that if I looked only at "vegetarian vs not", I'd conclude that vegetarian was more optimal. By the same token, I'd probably conclude that merely owning hiking boots or a kayak or soccer cleats was a life quality and quantity extender.
Rainymood 8y ago
> If I can paraphrase your first point, people eat meat because they enjoy it, and that's that. I understand your sentiment but there's a reason people enjoy eating meat, it feels pleasureable in our mouth because it is rich in nutrients and rare in nature. In nature you don't eat meat every day like we do in our current society. Just like donuts and candy tastes nice is because there's a lot of sugar and fat in them, things that are scarce in nature. >I'm curious what your source is for saying a vegetarian diet isn't optimal. Most studies I've seen (including large and long studies) claim the opposite. Here's a list: [1] If you actually read through the Wikipedia I am not really convinced > (...) although this is at least partly due to lifestyle factors beyond diet, such as a low prevalence of smoking, and the generally high socioeconomic status >(...) and other lifestyle factors associated with a vegetarian diet may contribute to the positive health outcomes that have been identified among vegetarians.[11] The point Wikipedia tries to make is clear. What I'm trying to argue is that there are nutrients in meat that you are unable to get anywhere else than from meat. Yes, I fully realize that we can synthesize these things artificially but you still need them. As with most things in life, the optimum is somewhere in between. One could eat no meat at all, one end of the scale, one could eat only meat, the other end of the scale with the optimum probably somewhere in between.
- iN7h33nD 8y ago
  Is what your arguing actually backed by science though?
bobajeff 8y ago
Actually, meat (red meat in particular) has vitamins that are necessary but are hard or impossible to get as a vegetarian/vegan without supplements.[1] Deficiencies in some of these nutrients could be permanent. What's worse is it could take years for the effects to be noticed. It's very sad that people are still selling these diets without disclosing the very important health risks they pose or the care that must be taken when on them. [1]https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-ge...

by latch 8y ago

sokoloff 8y ago

I readily agree that the people I know who are vegetarian are, as a cohort, seem healthier, more active, and happier than the randomly selected American. What I can't readily conclude is cause and effect. I haven't seen many (any?) studies that effectively isolate vegetarian diet in humans from confounding factors as mentioned in the first paragraph of the wikipedia link you provided. I've yet to meet a vegetarian who sits on the couch all day, smoking, eating fries, chips and candy, drinking beer and watching TV. I've met plenty of others who fall fairly close to that stereotype and I'll readily admit that if I looked only at "vegetarian vs not", I'd conclude that vegetarian was more optimal. By the same token, I'd probably conclude that merely owning hiking boots or a kayak or soccer cleats was a life quality and quantity extender.

Rainymood 8y ago

> If I can paraphrase your first point, people eat meat because they enjoy it, and that's that. I understand your sentiment but there's a reason people enjoy eating meat, it feels pleasureable in our mouth because it is rich in nutrients and rare in nature. In nature you don't eat meat every day like we do in our current society. Just like donuts and candy tastes nice is because there's a lot of sugar and fat in them, things that are scarce in nature. >I'm curious what your source is for saying a vegetarian diet isn't optimal. Most studies I've seen (including large and long studies) claim the opposite. Here's a list: [1] If you actually read through the Wikipedia I am not really convinced > (...) although this is at least partly due to lifestyle factors beyond diet, such as a low prevalence of smoking, and the generally high socioeconomic status >(...) and other lifestyle factors associated with a vegetarian diet may contribute to the positive health outcomes that have been identified among vegetarians.[11] The point Wikipedia tries to make is clear. What I'm trying to argue is that there are nutrients in meat that you are unable to get anywhere else than from meat. Yes, I fully realize that we can synthesize these things artificially but you still need them. As with most things in life, the optimum is somewhere in between. One could eat no meat at all, one end of the scale, one could eat only meat, the other end of the scale with the optimum probably somewhere in between.

iN7h33nD 8y ago
Is what your arguing actually backed by science though?

bobajeff 8y ago

Actually, meat (red meat in particular) has vitamins that are necessary but are hard or impossible to get as a vegetarian/vegan without supplements.[1] Deficiencies in some of these nutrients could be permanent. What's worse is it could take years for the effects to be noticed. It's very sad that people are still selling these diets without disclosing the very important health risks they pose or the care that must be taken when on them. [1]https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-ge...