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SE owner here. Total tech nerd, but I just want a small phone that fits in my back pocket when I'm cycling. It makes me very sad that they're all getting enormo

SE owner here. Total tech nerd, but I just want a small phone that fits in my back pocket when I'm cycling. It makes me very sad that they're all getting enormous. When I'm out, I'm just sending messages. Maybe a bit of maps and occasionally Safari. But all of my proper browsing is done at home, on an iPad or my Mac. When I'm out, I'm out. The phone is a tool, it's not the thing I'm doing.

kalleboo 8y ago
Apple wants cyclists to buy a cellular apple watch
- emptybits 8y ago
  This cyclist bought one. Then he found out his Canadian carrier (Fido) doesn't support Apple Watch.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    Yeah I'm still skeptical about this eSIM business
  - Marsymars 8y ago
    Fido isn't even a real carrier. It's more that Rogers (along with the other carriers) has chosen to artificially restrict Apple Watch support to only its most expensive plans.
- johnvaluk 8y ago
  I'm a cyclist with an Apple Watch and iPhone SE. The watch is nearly useless when I'm riding, because it requires me to remove one or both hands from the handlebar for too long to accomplish anything meaningful AND possibly take my eyes off the road to see what's (not) happening on the display. Too many Watch apps wait until you open them to update (if you're lucky) or tell you to unlock your iPhone first. It sounds convenient, but it's really a usability nightmare on a bike. Use Siri instead, you say? I can already do that with my headset, so what benefit does the watch provide? I use my watch mostly at work for 2FA and to passively monitor my notifications. When I need to respond, I'd rather use my phone, so adding cellular to the watch doesn't really add much value for me.
camillomiller 8y ago
I understand your point of view, but from a market standpoint you're a niche of a niche of a niche. I feel you, because I have the same feeling about many mass produced products. I find that the real problem with phone and electronics is that their nature prevents the development of "artisanal" alternatives, which, market-wise, are the only option that can takle the need of a small pool of users like in your case.
- iguy 8y ago
  I remain surprised that such niches don't get filled. Apple is weird, but what percentage of the market does the 100th most popular Android phone capture?
  - camillomiller 8y ago
    I don't, considering the amount of resources needed to concieve, develop and market even the smallest peripheral at a company like Apple. Plus (although it might be less so nowadays due to their size) Apple still has a culture of saying "no" to a lot of things that "could" make sense. Some chinese companies that tend to throw shit at the wall to see what sticks are better positioned to do that, but chances are that you'll get a subpar product you won't probably like using, let alone buy in the first place. Last but not least, the existence of a niche of consumers is no direct indication that such niche will actually buy the product they think they want. This is why a lot of startups fail despite the fact their product should theoretically sell like hot cakes.
  - Arnt 8y ago
    I think this niche doesn't get filled because of the gap between what you want and what you buy. The gap between what you (ought to) want and that which makes a good first impression on you. I have, use and like a small android phone called "unihertz jelly pro", small enough to fit in any pocket and good for my use. After a while with that phone, using a phablet one evening was an absolute eureka moment. I was looking for some sort of product, and on the phablet all the photos looked good. Inviting. Desirable. The whole phablet was fun in a way the small phone wasn't. After that experience, I can understand that people reach for the big phones in the shop, even if some of them may really want something different in the long term. And I can understand why retailers stock the phones they do. The phone where instagram looks good is the phone with the right first impression, and one has to optimise for getting the goods out the door. (http://rant.gulbrandsen.priv.no/unihertz http://rant.gulbrandsen.priv.no/unihertz has blah about how I tweaked the phone, if anyone cares.)
stevewillows 8y ago
I love the SE love / appreciation on HN. I love the SE so much, and I hope this form factor lives on. Outside of HN, I don't know anybody with an SE. We seem to be in the same boat for phone use. For me, I only use my phone for a handful of things * basic browsing * recipes while cooking * some music and audiobooks (I mostly use a modified iPod 5.5) * Simon Tatham's Puzzles * clearing my mod queue on Reddit when I'm not home I'd love to see Apple's market research behind the SE to see if our use patterns are normal for fellow owners.
- deltron3030 8y ago
  >I'd love to see Apple's market research behind the SE to see if our use patterns are normal for fellow owners. I think the're many more like you, and that Apple is aware of it. My theory is that they don't want to cannibalize watch sales, or basically regard the watch or wearable market as their future, and the Apple Watch as device to cement their leadership role in this market early on. I mean it works for them, they are the number one wearbales brand now. It's not only watches, the're the headphones and maybe AR glasses in the future, a distributed wearable system if you'd combine them. That's where things are going I think. If the'd have continued pushing sff phones (pocket watches), their real watches might not have gotten this traction.
  - sutterbomb 8y ago
    This doesn’t seem very plausible to me. Still a world of difference between small phone and watch. I just don’t think there’s a big enough market for small phone users who won’t buy the next available size that more people are happier with.
  - imglorp 8y ago
    I agree with that, and also wonder if they're ignoring the research in order to continue with the current profitable trend of bigger every year, because that's one of the very few distinguishers they have. It's easy to market in one word ideas and easy to understand, same reason cars and cokes are getting bigger.
  - ethbro 8y ago

kalleboo 8y ago

Apple wants cyclists to buy a cellular apple watch

emptybits 8y ago
This cyclist bought one. Then he found out his Canadian carrier (Fido) doesn't support Apple Watch.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- kalleboo 8y ago
  Yeah I'm still skeptical about this eSIM business
- Marsymars 8y ago
  Fido isn't even a real carrier. It's more that Rogers (along with the other carriers) has chosen to artificially restrict Apple Watch support to only its most expensive plans.
johnvaluk 8y ago
I'm a cyclist with an Apple Watch and iPhone SE. The watch is nearly useless when I'm riding, because it requires me to remove one or both hands from the handlebar for too long to accomplish anything meaningful AND possibly take my eyes off the road to see what's (not) happening on the display. Too many Watch apps wait until you open them to update (if you're lucky) or tell you to unlock your iPhone first. It sounds convenient, but it's really a usability nightmare on a bike. Use Siri instead, you say? I can already do that with my headset, so what benefit does the watch provide? I use my watch mostly at work for 2FA and to passively monitor my notifications. When I need to respond, I'd rather use my phone, so adding cellular to the watch doesn't really add much value for me.

camillomiller 8y ago

I understand your point of view, but from a market standpoint you're a niche of a niche of a niche. I feel you, because I have the same feeling about many mass produced products. I find that the real problem with phone and electronics is that their nature prevents the development of "artisanal" alternatives, which, market-wise, are the only option that can takle the need of a small pool of users like in your case.

iguy 8y ago
I remain surprised that such niches don't get filled. Apple is weird, but what percentage of the market does the 100th most popular Android phone capture?
- camillomiller 8y ago
  I don't, considering the amount of resources needed to concieve, develop and market even the smallest peripheral at a company like Apple. Plus (although it might be less so nowadays due to their size) Apple still has a culture of saying "no" to a lot of things that "could" make sense. Some chinese companies that tend to throw shit at the wall to see what sticks are better positioned to do that, but chances are that you'll get a subpar product you won't probably like using, let alone buy in the first place. Last but not least, the existence of a niche of consumers is no direct indication that such niche will actually buy the product they think they want. This is why a lot of startups fail despite the fact their product should theoretically sell like hot cakes.
- Arnt 8y ago
  I think this niche doesn't get filled because of the gap between what you want and what you buy. The gap between what you (ought to) want and that which makes a good first impression on you. I have, use and like a small android phone called "unihertz jelly pro", small enough to fit in any pocket and good for my use. After a while with that phone, using a phablet one evening was an absolute eureka moment. I was looking for some sort of product, and on the phablet all the photos looked good. Inviting. Desirable. The whole phablet was fun in a way the small phone wasn't. After that experience, I can understand that people reach for the big phones in the shop, even if some of them may really want something different in the long term. And I can understand why retailers stock the phones they do. The phone where instagram looks good is the phone with the right first impression, and one has to optimise for getting the goods out the door. (http://rant.gulbrandsen.priv.no/unihertz http://rant.gulbrandsen.priv.no/unihertz has blah about how I tweaked the phone, if anyone cares.)

stevewillows 8y ago

I love the SE love / appreciation on HN. I love the SE so much, and I hope this form factor lives on. Outside of HN, I don't know anybody with an SE. We seem to be in the same boat for phone use. For me, I only use my phone for a handful of things * basic browsing * recipes while cooking * some music and audiobooks (I mostly use a modified iPod 5.5) * Simon Tatham's Puzzles * clearing my mod queue on Reddit when I'm not home I'd love to see Apple's market research behind the SE to see if our use patterns are normal for fellow owners.

deltron3030 8y ago
>I'd love to see Apple's market research behind the SE to see if our use patterns are normal for fellow owners. I think the're many more like you, and that Apple is aware of it. My theory is that they don't want to cannibalize watch sales, or basically regard the watch or wearable market as their future, and the Apple Watch as device to cement their leadership role in this market early on. I mean it works for them, they are the number one wearbales brand now. It's not only watches, the're the headphones and maybe AR glasses in the future, a distributed wearable system if you'd combine them. That's where things are going I think. If the'd have continued pushing sff phones (pocket watches), their real watches might not have gotten this traction.
- sutterbomb 8y ago
  This doesn’t seem very plausible to me. Still a world of difference between small phone and watch. I just don’t think there’s a big enough market for small phone users who won’t buy the next available size that more people are happier with.
- imglorp 8y ago
  I agree with that, and also wonder if they're ignoring the research in order to continue with the current profitable trend of bigger every year, because that's one of the very few distinguishers they have. It's easy to market in one word ideas and easy to understand, same reason cars and cokes are getting bigger.
- ethbro 8y ago