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What I realized as I get older and have met many different people, is that, everyone, is, judgmental. Of course, different people value different things. Some j

What I realized as I get older and have met many different people, is that, everyone, is, judgmental. Of course, different people value different things. Some judge by wealth, some by looks, some by height, skin color, hobby, manner, education, intellect, family background, job, way you speak, way you act, etc, etc. Why are some judgmental criterias more acceptable than others? I mean, compared to many of the less change-able traits like look, skin color, where you are from, intelligence, etc, isn't wealth, being acquire-able, a somewhat more "fair" criteria to be judged on?

philipov 8y ago
No, because wealth is not fairly distributed. The biggest predictor of wealth is being born rich. Looking at only the best case is not sufficient to call a criterion "fair."
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Godel_unicode 8y ago
  The operative word being "more". If you agree with gp that people are going to be judgy, which I do, then what we're looking for is least-bad.
  - learc83 8y ago
    >then what we're looking for is least-bad. Wealth certainly isn't the least-bad. Also I haven't seen any evidence that encouraging people to judge others by one metric discourages them from judging people by other metrics.
    - simonh 8y ago
      This is an important point. The implicit assumption of the OP, “if we’re going to judge in one thing” is bogus. Why do we have to judge on only one thing? Why can’t we judge different traits and characteristics based on different metrics? What does material wealth tell us about someone? What is it about them we are judging?
  - philipov 8y ago
    You are arguing that the frying pan is not as bad as the fire. If your morality is so impoverished that this is the least-bad you can think of, you should take a break from judgement.
- tuesdayrain 8y ago
  Is anything truly "fair" then? Even people's decisions and actions are affected by their genetics and upbringing, none of which are really fair. By this logic it's unacceptable to judge people on anything.
  - mcny 8y ago
    > By this logic it's unacceptable to judge people on anything. Why do we need to judge people at all? If it is simply to feel superior, you can just make stuff up. "Look at that person with/without an iPhone while I don't have/have one."
    - philipov 8y ago
      IPhone is just a proxy for wealth. I suggest instead, "Look at that pathetic guy trying to justify evil actions by making wealth at any cost seem like a virtue."
  - philipov 8y ago
    If you are desperate for something to judge people by, maybe start with their compassion towards those less fortunate than themselves.
- badestrand 8y ago
  Also comparing wealth to judge people doesn't make sense because many don't even strive for it. At least in Germany most people just want a middle class lifestyle (i.e. normal job and house) but have absolutely no ambitions for more.
jacobolus 8y ago
This seems like a straw man argument. Obviously everyone is “judgmental” to some degree or another (maybe with the exception of some people with severe mental injuries or the like), especially if you can make as expansive a definition as you want for “judgment”. But not everyone is equally judgmental, certainly not publicly. Some are constantly publicly disparaging everyone and every thing, offering unsolicited advice, making rude exclamations, making public comparisons, bragging, chatting behind people’s backs, or the like. Others get along without ever making obvious negative judgments, e.g. don’t obviously concern themselves too much with other people, or keep their criticisms to themselves and keep their conversation no-nonsense, or find genuine compliments to dish out in a wide variety of circumstances, or talk about themselves out of joy at spreading ideas vs. personal marketing, etc. Some of these people are just exceptionally empathetic (and don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings) or politically savvy, but some pretty clearly just don’t care that much. > isn't wealth, being acquire-able, a somewhat more "fair" criteria to be judged on? Personally, I don’t feel like I should care about it, and I try not to care. There’s nothing inherently bad about wealth, but I don’t really find it very impressive or interesting per se. I am much more judgmental (personally, not necessarily aloud) about how excited people are about what they are doing, how adventurous they are at trying ideas, how kind they are, how much they empathize with others, how reliable, etc. Wealth is one of the least valuable signals I have found for predicting whether I will like someone in the long term... though I admit I judge people negatively for wantonly wasting resources or bragging about their wealth.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  There's a difference between judging - which is an exercise in locating people along your own value scale, whatever that is - and aggressive narcissistic devaluation. The letter is absolutely toxic, irrespective of political orientation. And it can lead to toxic actions and violent abuse - which may be institutionalised.
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    Sure. But even in the case of personal internal judgments, people vary widely in how much they do this. Some are constantly consciously trying to measure and compare everyone they meet, whereas others seem to generally not notice much.
x220 8y ago
>intelligence If you don't think that intelligence is very modifiable, then you must also not think that wealth is very modifiable too, given that IQ is the most accurate predictor of wealth that we have.
x220 8y ago
>hobby, manner, ..., way you speak, way you act It's fine to judge by these, depending on the circumstances, since these are actions people take, rather than things about them that are out of their control or out of their reach.
saiya-jin 8y ago
My primary criteria, way above anything else, is simple plain old 'good heart'. People that don't take more then they are given, are reliable, honest and don't have evil/selfish traits. Traits you mention are completely irrelevant in face of those - at least for me.
complex1314 8y ago
It all depends on your definition of judgment. Of course we all judge, that's how we choose to be with the people who do us good and are pleasant to associate with, and avoid others who are not. (And basically navigate life in a way that is safe and healthy). But it is not a value judgment, just about making good decisions. But putting people in a hierarchy where some people are better or worse than others (in particular in respect to one self) is IMO rooted in insecurity, it makes us feel good to put ourself in the same box as people we admire and above those we loathe. Personally I love being with people who are not judgmental (by putting value on people, and yes they exist). And funny thing is that it is contagious, I feel much less like being judgmental when being around those people. The opposite is also true, the easiest people to judge are those who just judged someone, in particular if they judged me.

philipov 8y ago

No, because wealth is not fairly distributed. The biggest predictor of wealth is being born rich. Looking at only the best case is not sufficient to call a criterion "fair."

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Godel_unicode 8y ago
The operative word being "more". If you agree with gp that people are going to be judgy, which I do, then what we're looking for is least-bad.
- learc83 8y ago
  >then what we're looking for is least-bad. Wealth certainly isn't the least-bad. Also I haven't seen any evidence that encouraging people to judge others by one metric discourages them from judging people by other metrics.
  - simonh 8y ago
    This is an important point. The implicit assumption of the OP, “if we’re going to judge in one thing” is bogus. Why do we have to judge on only one thing? Why can’t we judge different traits and characteristics based on different metrics? What does material wealth tell us about someone? What is it about them we are judging?
- philipov 8y ago
  You are arguing that the frying pan is not as bad as the fire. If your morality is so impoverished that this is the least-bad you can think of, you should take a break from judgement.
tuesdayrain 8y ago
Is anything truly "fair" then? Even people's decisions and actions are affected by their genetics and upbringing, none of which are really fair. By this logic it's unacceptable to judge people on anything.
- mcny 8y ago
  > By this logic it's unacceptable to judge people on anything. Why do we need to judge people at all? If it is simply to feel superior, you can just make stuff up. "Look at that person with/without an iPhone while I don't have/have one."
  - philipov 8y ago
    IPhone is just a proxy for wealth. I suggest instead, "Look at that pathetic guy trying to justify evil actions by making wealth at any cost seem like a virtue."
- philipov 8y ago
  If you are desperate for something to judge people by, maybe start with their compassion towards those less fortunate than themselves.
badestrand 8y ago
Also comparing wealth to judge people doesn't make sense because many don't even strive for it. At least in Germany most people just want a middle class lifestyle (i.e. normal job and house) but have absolutely no ambitions for more.

jacobolus 8y ago

This seems like a straw man argument. Obviously everyone is “judgmental” to some degree or another (maybe with the exception of some people with severe mental injuries or the like), especially if you can make as expansive a definition as you want for “judgment”. But not everyone is equally judgmental, certainly not publicly. Some are constantly publicly disparaging everyone and every thing, offering unsolicited advice, making rude exclamations, making public comparisons, bragging, chatting behind people’s backs, or the like. Others get along without ever making obvious negative judgments, e.g. don’t obviously concern themselves too much with other people, or keep their criticisms to themselves and keep their conversation no-nonsense, or find genuine compliments to dish out in a wide variety of circumstances, or talk about themselves out of joy at spreading ideas vs. personal marketing, etc. Some of these people are just exceptionally empathetic (and don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings) or politically savvy, but some pretty clearly just don’t care that much. > isn't wealth, being acquire-able, a somewhat more "fair" criteria to be judged on? Personally, I don’t feel like I should care about it, and I try not to care. There’s nothing inherently bad about wealth, but I don’t really find it very impressive or interesting per se. I am much more judgmental (personally, not necessarily aloud) about how excited people are about what they are doing, how adventurous they are at trying ideas, how kind they are, how much they empathize with others, how reliable, etc. Wealth is one of the least valuable signals I have found for predicting whether I will like someone in the long term... though I admit I judge people negatively for wantonly wasting resources or bragging about their wealth.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
There's a difference between judging - which is an exercise in locating people along your own value scale, whatever that is - and aggressive narcissistic devaluation. The letter is absolutely toxic, irrespective of political orientation. And it can lead to toxic actions and violent abuse - which may be institutionalised.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  Sure. But even in the case of personal internal judgments, people vary widely in how much they do this. Some are constantly consciously trying to measure and compare everyone they meet, whereas others seem to generally not notice much.

x220 8y ago

>intelligence If you don't think that intelligence is very modifiable, then you must also not think that wealth is very modifiable too, given that IQ is the most accurate predictor of wealth that we have.

x220 8y ago

>hobby, manner, ..., way you speak, way you act It's fine to judge by these, depending on the circumstances, since these are actions people take, rather than things about them that are out of their control or out of their reach.

saiya-jin 8y ago

My primary criteria, way above anything else, is simple plain old 'good heart'. People that don't take more then they are given, are reliable, honest and don't have evil/selfish traits. Traits you mention are completely irrelevant in face of those - at least for me.

complex1314 8y ago

It all depends on your definition of judgment. Of course we all judge, that's how we choose to be with the people who do us good and are pleasant to associate with, and avoid others who are not. (And basically navigate life in a way that is safe and healthy). But it is not a value judgment, just about making good decisions. But putting people in a hierarchy where some people are better or worse than others (in particular in respect to one self) is IMO rooted in insecurity, it makes us feel good to put ourself in the same box as people we admire and above those we loathe. Personally I love being with people who are not judgmental (by putting value on people, and yes they exist). And funny thing is that it is contagious, I feel much less like being judgmental when being around those people. The opposite is also true, the easiest people to judge are those who just judged someone, in particular if they judged me.