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That link measures peoples perception. My perception is that the influence of money is blatantly epidemic in US politics. But it uses an euphemism; lobbying. Lu

by jahaja 8y ago

That link measures peoples perception. My perception is that the influence of money is blatantly epidemic in US politics. But it uses an euphemism; lobbying. Luckily it's not corruption if it's legal.

Retric 8y ago
Lobbing is not inherently corrupt. When a small group cares a lot about a specific issue say astronomers and light pollution lobbing is simply trying to get politions to pay attention to an issue. That effort is not free, in some cases they approach the issue by mailing or dolling people directly, in others they pay somone else to make these calls and phrase things in political terms etc. Now, that does open the door for people to game the system, but you can’t simply define all lobbing as corruption or even all lobbing you disagree with as corruption. So, yes their are plenty of blatant cases of corruption but they are relatively rare compared to China.
- jahaja 8y ago
  Why is it important for you to issue a petty nuance to this that you should, and probably do, realise that I already acknowledge? Compare: "China is actually not inherently undemocratic there's a lot of local officials etc being voted in". Yes, but on the systemic, overall, scale there's a blatant democratic deficit present for all to see.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Because it's a question of scale not kind, when you go to the DMV etc in the US you don't expect to bribe anyone. That's far from culturally or historically universal, so day to day it's just not that corrupt relative to other countries. Now, is politics in the US rigged? Ehh. You do need to actually participate to be counted. Don't vote and don't lobby then sure they your voice is not heard. Now does everyone get equally rewarded when they vote or lobby? Clearly not as every vote is not equal and frankly that's part of our constitution. So is the US a democracy? Nope. On the other hand the US is not a totalitarian state, the will of the people does actually matter and things happen without bribes every day. Compare it to say England where the landed gentry got to hold extra special power rather than ever shifting groups in the US and yea it's not that bad.
    - jahaja 8y ago
      Indeed it is. The scale I wrote about above was lobbying [people in power], not giving the highway cop half the official fine.

by jahaja 8y ago

Retric 8y ago

Lobbing is not inherently corrupt. When a small group cares a lot about a specific issue say astronomers and light pollution lobbing is simply trying to get politions to pay attention to an issue. That effort is not free, in some cases they approach the issue by mailing or dolling people directly, in others they pay somone else to make these calls and phrase things in political terms etc. Now, that does open the door for people to game the system, but you can’t simply define all lobbing as corruption or even all lobbing you disagree with as corruption. So, yes their are plenty of blatant cases of corruption but they are relatively rare compared to China.

jahaja 8y ago
Why is it important for you to issue a petty nuance to this that you should, and probably do, realise that I already acknowledge? Compare: "China is actually not inherently undemocratic there's a lot of local officials etc being voted in". Yes, but on the systemic, overall, scale there's a blatant democratic deficit present for all to see.
- Retric 8y ago
  Because it's a question of scale not kind, when you go to the DMV etc in the US you don't expect to bribe anyone. That's far from culturally or historically universal, so day to day it's just not that corrupt relative to other countries. Now, is politics in the US rigged? Ehh. You do need to actually participate to be counted. Don't vote and don't lobby then sure they your voice is not heard. Now does everyone get equally rewarded when they vote or lobby? Clearly not as every vote is not equal and frankly that's part of our constitution. So is the US a democracy? Nope. On the other hand the US is not a totalitarian state, the will of the people does actually matter and things happen without bribes every day. Compare it to say England where the landed gentry got to hold extra special power rather than ever shifting groups in the US and yea it's not that bad.
  - jahaja 8y ago
    Indeed it is. The scale I wrote about above was lobbying [people in power], not giving the highway cop half the official fine.