3 ms·

Solve homelessness in SF by solving the outrageous price of housing.

edwinwee 8y ago
We're trying: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/03/us/california-today-stripe-yimby-housing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/03/us/california-today-strip...
untog 8y ago
While that's a fine aim, in reality it just means "do nothing". There are much more achievable short-term things that can be done to ease homelessness in SF than solving the decades-long problem of affordable housing.
- btilly 8y ago
  There is a subtle but important difference between solving the problem of "outrageous housing" and "affordable housing". The difference can be illustrated by looking at how a measure meant to solve the latter, creates the former. Suppose that we mandate that all housing created needs to be reviewed and a certain fraction of that housing needs to be set aside for affordable housing. You will indeed increase the amount of housing available at the price point that you have deemed affordable. However the same action is a disincentive to build new housing, and also artificially reduces the supply of housing being sold at what would otherwise be a fair market price. This measure restricts supply, and in accord with economics 101 will increase average prices. The result? More affordable housing AND a higher average price of housing. The net cost of housing goes up. (Which ironically will tend to cause more people who were on the edge of being able to afford housing to become homeless, making it likely that they lose their jobs, and thereby creating more need for affordable housing. Aren't you glad that we're doing something about the affordable housing problem to help them?)
asah 8y ago
um, many of these people are mentally ill, physically ill and/or addicted to drugs: they need a lot more than just housing. (I live a few blocks from the worst areas and see people dealing drugs and shooting up every day)
- inetknght 8y ago
  Yeah because people who have homes aren't mentally ill. /s Being physically ill isn't a correlation of having neither money nor a home. /s Being addicted to drugs isn't a symptom of mentally checking out to avoid the problems you're literally unable to address. /s Edit: yes, you're right, it's a lot more complicated than just housing. But housing, I think, is a big cause.
- J5892 8y ago
  Correlation does not imply causation. Physical illness and drug addiction (and even mental illness in some cases) are more likely a symptom of homelessness than a cause. From accounts I've heard from homeless people, one of the biggest problems homeless people have is boredom. This leads to both depression and drug use, both of which can lead to both physical and mental illness.
  - cgriswald 8y ago
    In fairness to all in this thread, I think the failure to define "solving homelessness" is causing some miscommunication. The OP seems to be discussing the problem of solving it in a global sense, so that people do not become homeless. IMO, more housing is the solution to that problem. The GP seems to be discussing the problem of solving it in terms of the existing homeless population, which, regardless of causation or the directionality of any causation, does require dealing with the mental illness and drug abuse issues.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > The OP seems to be discussing the problem of solving it in a global sense, so that people do not become homeless. IMO, more housing is the solution to that problem. IMO, it's not, because people don't become homeless (for the most part) because there are no existing vacant housing units, they become homeless because of joblessness, poor credit, drug addiction, mental illness, and criminal issues (often involving drugs), or a combination thereof, which make them unable (financially or otherwise) to either rent housing in the open market or take advantage of publicly operated or subsidized housing.

We're trying: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/03/us/california-today-stripe-yimby-housing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/03/us/california-today-strip...

untog 8y ago

While that's a fine aim, in reality it just means "do nothing". There are much more achievable short-term things that can be done to ease homelessness in SF than solving the decades-long problem of affordable housing.

btilly 8y ago
There is a subtle but important difference between solving the problem of "outrageous housing" and "affordable housing". The difference can be illustrated by looking at how a measure meant to solve the latter, creates the former. Suppose that we mandate that all housing created needs to be reviewed and a certain fraction of that housing needs to be set aside for affordable housing. You will indeed increase the amount of housing available at the price point that you have deemed affordable. However the same action is a disincentive to build new housing, and also artificially reduces the supply of housing being sold at what would otherwise be a fair market price. This measure restricts supply, and in accord with economics 101 will increase average prices. The result? More affordable housing AND a higher average price of housing. The net cost of housing goes up. (Which ironically will tend to cause more people who were on the edge of being able to afford housing to become homeless, making it likely that they lose their jobs, and thereby creating more need for affordable housing. Aren't you glad that we're doing something about the affordable housing problem to help them?)

asah 8y ago

um, many of these people are mentally ill, physically ill and/or addicted to drugs: they need a lot more than just housing. (I live a few blocks from the worst areas and see people dealing drugs and shooting up every day)

inetknght 8y ago
Yeah because people who have homes aren't mentally ill. /s Being physically ill isn't a correlation of having neither money nor a home. /s Being addicted to drugs isn't a symptom of mentally checking out to avoid the problems you're literally unable to address. /s Edit: yes, you're right, it's a lot more complicated than just housing. But housing, I think, is a big cause.
J5892 8y ago
Correlation does not imply causation. Physical illness and drug addiction (and even mental illness in some cases) are more likely a symptom of homelessness than a cause. From accounts I've heard from homeless people, one of the biggest problems homeless people have is boredom. This leads to both depression and drug use, both of which can lead to both physical and mental illness.
- cgriswald 8y ago
  In fairness to all in this thread, I think the failure to define "solving homelessness" is causing some miscommunication. The OP seems to be discussing the problem of solving it in a global sense, so that people do not become homeless. IMO, more housing is the solution to that problem. The GP seems to be discussing the problem of solving it in terms of the existing homeless population, which, regardless of causation or the directionality of any causation, does require dealing with the mental illness and drug abuse issues.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > The OP seems to be discussing the problem of solving it in a global sense, so that people do not become homeless. IMO, more housing is the solution to that problem. IMO, it's not, because people don't become homeless (for the most part) because there are no existing vacant housing units, they become homeless because of joblessness, poor credit, drug addiction, mental illness, and criminal issues (often involving drugs), or a combination thereof, which make them unable (financially or otherwise) to either rent housing in the open market or take advantage of publicly operated or subsidized housing.