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this is important in the united states, as the criminal justice system is often used as a blacklist. Once convicted of a DUI or drug possession, this criminal

this is important in the united states, as the criminal justice system is often used as a blacklist. Once convicted of a DUI or drug possession, this criminal record can be used to bar employment, rescind voting rights, and legally practice housing discrimination. American criminal justice is often a precursor for lasting biblical retribution. For example, sex offenders are often branded with scarlet letter for life even after having been incarcerated and released, presumably rehabilitated and having paid restitution to society. Criminal records are made public and posted to websites. disclosure is often required by law for prior felons.

Forbo 8y ago
Even more so than the sex offender registry, I think US news reporting is more problematic. I wish the US were more like Germany (I think?) in the regard that they don't identify people by name until conviction. By that time, there's less interest in sensationalizing a story.
- specialist 8y ago
  I strongly support this strategy. It'd reduce both witchhunts and copycats.
- donatj 8y ago
  I wasn't aware Germany did that, but that is great. Right now an accusation can ruin your life even if later corrected. It's not how society should function.
- jfim 8y ago
  It's definitely a cultural thing in the US to identify and show people that have purportedly committed crimes prior to their conviction. This article shows a Canadian perspective on how France and the US looked at the media during the DSK affair a while ago: https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2011/05/20/dominique_strausskahns_walk_of_shame.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2011/05/20/dominique_st... You can see how the different perspectives clash.
- Thiez 8y ago
  In the Netherlands it is customary (but not mandatory) for the media to include only the first letter of the last name for people who are not yet convicted. So when John Smith is in the news as the prime suspect of a murder, he will be referred to as John S. There are some exceptions, e.g. when someone is already a public figure, or when someone actually seeks the media attention. Sometimes the last-name omission looks a bit silly because many other countries (such as the USA) will publish the full name, so for high profile cases one can generally find the full names just by searching online. That said the system works pretty well because people generally don't bother looking up the full names.
794CD01 8y ago
Your criticism is based on a fundamental misunderstanding. The US prison system is not intended to rehabilitate anyone, and does not do so. Usually, criminals are even worse when they are released due to the time they've spent with other hardened criminals, being abused, forming criminal connections, and learning how to do crime more effectively. As a result, it's perfectly rational to track those people and be wary of them. The restitution angle is at least an argument, but treating the system as transactional in the sense that you break the balance by committing a crime then pay it back through slave work in jail is perhaps one of the few ways to make the system even more dysfunctional than it already is.
- BeetleB 8y ago
  >Your criticism is based on a fundamental misunderstanding. The US prison system is not intended to rehabilitate anyone, Depends on your definition of rehabilitate. From the Bureau of Prisons web site: >We protect public safety by ensuring that federal offenders serve their sentences of imprisonment in facilities that are safe, humane, cost-efficient, and appropriately secure, and provide reentry programming to ensure their successful return to the community >As a result, it's perfectly rational to track those people and be wary of them. If you agree with the premise that jails are making criminals even worse, the more rational answer would be not to send them there to begin with, right? After all, if you put people in jail and release them, you are making society worse off. It would be more rational to keep them in prison forever. I think the most rational approach, though, is to fix the prison system and provide proper rehabilitation. Accepting that we incarcerate people, and release them in a way that makes the public unsafe, is a poor option. >but treating the system as transactional in the sense that you break the balance by committing a crime then pay it back through slave work in jail is perhaps one of the few ways to make the system even more dysfunctional than it already is. This is a strawman - no one here is suggesting slave work, or even any work, in jail as a measure of rehabilitation.
ronnier 8y ago
> Once convicted of a DUI or drug possession, this criminal record can be used to bar employment, rescind voting rights, and legally practice housing discrimination. And Canada will not let you enter their country if you have a DUI in the US.
- slededit 8y ago
  It’s the Canadian equivalent of a felony. The US will bar you for any crimes which are a felony there as well. The surprise is that a first time offense is usually a misdemeanor in the US. In Canada the “misdemeanor” limit is .05%.

Forbo 8y ago

Even more so than the sex offender registry, I think US news reporting is more problematic. I wish the US were more like Germany (I think?) in the regard that they don't identify people by name until conviction. By that time, there's less interest in sensationalizing a story.

specialist 8y ago
I strongly support this strategy. It'd reduce both witchhunts and copycats.
donatj 8y ago
I wasn't aware Germany did that, but that is great. Right now an accusation can ruin your life even if later corrected. It's not how society should function.
jfim 8y ago
It's definitely a cultural thing in the US to identify and show people that have purportedly committed crimes prior to their conviction. This article shows a Canadian perspective on how France and the US looked at the media during the DSK affair a while ago: https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2011/05/20/dominique_strausskahns_walk_of_shame.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2011/05/20/dominique_st... You can see how the different perspectives clash.
Thiez 8y ago
In the Netherlands it is customary (but not mandatory) for the media to include only the first letter of the last name for people who are not yet convicted. So when John Smith is in the news as the prime suspect of a murder, he will be referred to as John S. There are some exceptions, e.g. when someone is already a public figure, or when someone actually seeks the media attention. Sometimes the last-name omission looks a bit silly because many other countries (such as the USA) will publish the full name, so for high profile cases one can generally find the full names just by searching online. That said the system works pretty well because people generally don't bother looking up the full names.

794CD01 8y ago

Your criticism is based on a fundamental misunderstanding. The US prison system is not intended to rehabilitate anyone, and does not do so. Usually, criminals are even worse when they are released due to the time they've spent with other hardened criminals, being abused, forming criminal connections, and learning how to do crime more effectively. As a result, it's perfectly rational to track those people and be wary of them. The restitution angle is at least an argument, but treating the system as transactional in the sense that you break the balance by committing a crime then pay it back through slave work in jail is perhaps one of the few ways to make the system even more dysfunctional than it already is.

BeetleB 8y ago
>Your criticism is based on a fundamental misunderstanding. The US prison system is not intended to rehabilitate anyone, Depends on your definition of rehabilitate. From the Bureau of Prisons web site: >We protect public safety by ensuring that federal offenders serve their sentences of imprisonment in facilities that are safe, humane, cost-efficient, and appropriately secure, and provide reentry programming to ensure their successful return to the community >As a result, it's perfectly rational to track those people and be wary of them. If you agree with the premise that jails are making criminals even worse, the more rational answer would be not to send them there to begin with, right? After all, if you put people in jail and release them, you are making society worse off. It would be more rational to keep them in prison forever. I think the most rational approach, though, is to fix the prison system and provide proper rehabilitation. Accepting that we incarcerate people, and release them in a way that makes the public unsafe, is a poor option. >but treating the system as transactional in the sense that you break the balance by committing a crime then pay it back through slave work in jail is perhaps one of the few ways to make the system even more dysfunctional than it already is. This is a strawman - no one here is suggesting slave work, or even any work, in jail as a measure of rehabilitation.

ronnier 8y ago

> Once convicted of a DUI or drug possession, this criminal record can be used to bar employment, rescind voting rights, and legally practice housing discrimination. And Canada will not let you enter their country if you have a DUI in the US.

slededit 8y ago
It’s the Canadian equivalent of a felony. The US will bar you for any crimes which are a felony there as well. The surprise is that a first time offense is usually a misdemeanor in the US. In Canada the “misdemeanor” limit is .05%.