8 ms·

“Not Safe for Brand” (NSFB) or How Reddit Will Censor Controversial Content

18 points by neverminder 8y ago

freeone3000 8y ago
So the insidious actions here are that certain subreddits are going to be manually reviewed, and marked as safe for large advertisers based on the absence of objectionable content. And reddit has yet to make a public announcement on this. Cool? Seems like a sensical approach to monetization for me.
- paulddraper 8y ago
  Choosing where to have your brand is really basic advertising stuff. --- That said, it's a little weird to have a global NSFB tag. Safe for what brand? NRA? Ben & Jerry's? NFL? Chick-fil-a? Planned Parenthood? Hooters? Disney? Communist Party USA? It further coalesces a division between universally "acceptable, popular" and universally "unacceptable, unpopular" thoughts.
  - freeone3000 8y ago
    There is already a global "nsfw" tag (applied per-post) for users to flag content as potentially objectionable. I don't see this as a huge step beyond that conceptually, it's the same thing with a different purpose.
    - paulddraper 8y ago
      But NSFW has a very well-understood definition: obscenity/gore. Obscenity is even a matter of legal interest and gets tried in court. NSFB is really, really mushy. It's a matter of marketing interest.
notatoad 8y ago
The mix of conspiracy theory and condescension in this article is really obnoxious.
nazihunter1234 8y ago
Umm ... if it wasn't already obvious, this guy is a nazi. See: "But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews. They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white." https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/02/americas-race-problem.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/02/americas-race-problem... See also: https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-europe-is-committing-suicide.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-europe-is-committ... https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2010/01/racist-word-invented-by-ussrs-leon.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2010/01/racist-word-invented-... https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/11/an-alt-right-search-engine.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/11/an-alt-right-search-e... https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/10/anonymous-email-is-anti-semitism-new.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/10/anonymous-email-is-an...
- paulddraper 8y ago
  Where in those blog posts do you see that he is a member, ally, or ideological proponent of the National Socialist German Workers' Party? He's a nationalist, but explicitly rejects Nazism/neo-Nazism. > Why the Future of Nationalism is Far from the Mess that is "White Nationalism" > To my mind, it's a mistake to identify as pro-white or neo-Nazi when what we want is much simpler...That means that each nation rules itself, makes its own rules, and does so through culture instead of the bureaucratic governments that absorb infinite money, make crazy rules, become corrupt, and kick down your door in the night because you said something socially unpopular on Farcebook or Twitless. > In my view, those who want to be "pro-white" should shift to this generalized nationalist program https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2013/11/why-future-of-nationalism-is-far-from.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2013/11/why-future-of-nationa... EDIT: I definitely don't agree with his views; I'm just don't want HN to devolve into factless name-calling/labeling. I wouldn't call indiscriminately call anyone with far-left views "commies". We already have Reddit.
  - CommieBobDole 8y ago
    Thank you for your pedantry - You are indeed correct that the author of the linked site does not appear to be a current member of a political party that ceased to exist some 70+ years ago. He or she does, however, appear to be a neo-Nazi, a white nationalist and a white supremacist.
CommieBobDole 8y ago
This is literally a flag for "this thing is uncontroversial enough that we can display ads on it without the advertiser complaining". I don't see how this is a problem for a commercial enterprise that makes its money from advertising. I encourage anyone reading this to browse around the rest of the linked site and decide for yourself whether the authors are driven by a sincere desire to protect free speech for everyone on Reddit, or if maybe they have another agenda in mind.
John_KZ 8y ago
Reddit has already devolved into a forum for 15 year olds to post nonsense jokes. Those of us who knew how reddit used to be and still occasionally visit tend to stay away from the main subs and visit for very specific reasons. We should make another forum-aggregator to replace reddit and it's terrible moderation system, but it probably just won't get big enough.
- Finch2193 8y ago
  I have been patiently waiting for an alternative to Reddit. In this time, I have been reading books, and hacker news. Going back to Reddit feels like an extreme regression. Should I give up on the hope that one day we'll see another, better Reddit? Digg died when they redesigned their site, I was hoping we'd see the same thing with reddit, rinse and repeat...
  - elektor 8y ago
    There is an offshoot of Reddit that I frequent and enjoy, it was made by a former Reddit dev: https://blog.tildes.net/announcing-tildes https://blog.tildes.net/announcing-tildes I've got 2 more invites for those are that interested.
krapp 8y ago
I don't understand the conspiratorial language here. The premise that businesses "love leftist dogma" because it's "non-controversial" is farcical, and an API flag marking something as unsafe for advertisement isn't "censorship." The slippery slope arguments being employed by certain people in defense of "free speech" are starting to devolve into a swamp. I put free speech in quotes there because I have little doubt, judging from the site's content and my impression of the author's views, they would have no issue at all with censorship of "leftists" and their speech.
- CommieBobDole 8y ago
  One the one hand, as someone more or less on the left, I am a little concerned with the political orthodoxy I see on the left, where there's a package of "correct" ideas of varying quality, and disagreeing with or having varying levels of enthusiasm about any of them is seen as almost worse than rejecting them all entirely. On the other hand, nearly everyone I see these days who talks about being really passionate about free speech and preventing groupthink seems to be an actual goddamned neo-Nazi whose idea of free speech is the right to scream racial slurs at top volume into the faces of "libtard cucks" until they're driven out of public spaces and they can resurrect the Third Reich without interference.
  - existencebox 8y ago
    I realize your statement may be slightly hyperbolic, but I want to reassure you there are many moderate/centrally leaning individuals passionate about free speech and the power of questioning any status quo as a tool to seek truth. (obviously not as many as I might desire, but...) This _cannot_ be an issue that only becomes provenance of the worst kinds, because then it becomes easy to dismiss. One need only be a student of history to see the importance of the above for _breaking_ oppression and tyranny. (Sorry, not to distract from the OP and the primary discussion, I just felt strongly enough about the above statement to wave a "I promise we're out here" flag.)
  - krapp 8y ago
    The problem is, racial realism and the alt-right are driving a resurgence in anti-Semitic and neo-nazi ideology, and the anti-globalist and anti-progressive movements around the world do feed into that, despite that not being their real genesis or purpose. Trump is (probably) not a white supremacist or neo-nazi but his election caused white supremacists and neo-nazis to come out of the woodwork and the left should not be the only ones concerned about that. Unfortunately, the left seems to have succumbed to the same sort of race-baiting, extremist paranoia that caused the right to meltdown over two Obama terms and they don't even see it. We can't come together over this issue because the right has embraced racism in the name of defending free speech causing the left to consider "free speech" to be a euphemism for supporting racist ideology.

18 points by neverminder 8y ago

So the insidious actions here are that certain subreddits are going to be manually reviewed, and marked as safe for large advertisers based on the absence of objectionable content. And reddit has yet to make a public announcement on this. Cool? Seems like a sensical approach to monetization for me.

paulddraper 8y ago
Choosing where to have your brand is really basic advertising stuff. --- That said, it's a little weird to have a global NSFB tag. Safe for what brand? NRA? Ben & Jerry's? NFL? Chick-fil-a? Planned Parenthood? Hooters? Disney? Communist Party USA? It further coalesces a division between universally "acceptable, popular" and universally "unacceptable, unpopular" thoughts.
- freeone3000 8y ago
  There is already a global "nsfw" tag (applied per-post) for users to flag content as potentially objectionable. I don't see this as a huge step beyond that conceptually, it's the same thing with a different purpose.
  - paulddraper 8y ago
    But NSFW has a very well-understood definition: obscenity/gore. Obscenity is even a matter of legal interest and gets tried in court. NSFB is really, really mushy. It's a matter of marketing interest.

notatoad 8y ago

The mix of conspiracy theory and condescension in this article is really obnoxious.

nazihunter1234 8y ago

Umm ... if it wasn't already obvious, this guy is a nazi. See: "But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews. They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white." https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/02/americas-race-problem.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/02/americas-race-problem... See also: https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-europe-is-committing-suicide.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-europe-is-committ... https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2010/01/racist-word-invented-by-ussrs-leon.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2010/01/racist-word-invented-... https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/11/an-alt-right-search-engine.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/11/an-alt-right-search-e... https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/10/anonymous-email-is-anti-semitism-new.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2016/10/anonymous-email-is-an...

paulddraper 8y ago
Where in those blog posts do you see that he is a member, ally, or ideological proponent of the National Socialist German Workers' Party? He's a nationalist, but explicitly rejects Nazism/neo-Nazism. > Why the Future of Nationalism is Far from the Mess that is "White Nationalism" > To my mind, it's a mistake to identify as pro-white or neo-Nazi when what we want is much simpler...That means that each nation rules itself, makes its own rules, and does so through culture instead of the bureaucratic governments that absorb infinite money, make crazy rules, become corrupt, and kick down your door in the night because you said something socially unpopular on Farcebook or Twitless. > In my view, those who want to be "pro-white" should shift to this generalized nationalist program https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2013/11/why-future-of-nationalism-is-far-from.html https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2013/11/why-future-of-nationa... EDIT: I definitely don't agree with his views; I'm just don't want HN to devolve into factless name-calling/labeling. I wouldn't call indiscriminately call anyone with far-left views "commies". We already have Reddit.
- CommieBobDole 8y ago
  Thank you for your pedantry - You are indeed correct that the author of the linked site does not appear to be a current member of a political party that ceased to exist some 70+ years ago. He or she does, however, appear to be a neo-Nazi, a white nationalist and a white supremacist.

CommieBobDole 8y ago

This is literally a flag for "this thing is uncontroversial enough that we can display ads on it without the advertiser complaining". I don't see how this is a problem for a commercial enterprise that makes its money from advertising. I encourage anyone reading this to browse around the rest of the linked site and decide for yourself whether the authors are driven by a sincere desire to protect free speech for everyone on Reddit, or if maybe they have another agenda in mind.

John_KZ 8y ago

Reddit has already devolved into a forum for 15 year olds to post nonsense jokes. Those of us who knew how reddit used to be and still occasionally visit tend to stay away from the main subs and visit for very specific reasons. We should make another forum-aggregator to replace reddit and it's terrible moderation system, but it probably just won't get big enough.

Finch2193 8y ago
I have been patiently waiting for an alternative to Reddit. In this time, I have been reading books, and hacker news. Going back to Reddit feels like an extreme regression. Should I give up on the hope that one day we'll see another, better Reddit? Digg died when they redesigned their site, I was hoping we'd see the same thing with reddit, rinse and repeat...
- elektor 8y ago
  There is an offshoot of Reddit that I frequent and enjoy, it was made by a former Reddit dev: https://blog.tildes.net/announcing-tildes https://blog.tildes.net/announcing-tildes I've got 2 more invites for those are that interested.

krapp 8y ago

I don't understand the conspiratorial language here. The premise that businesses "love leftist dogma" because it's "non-controversial" is farcical, and an API flag marking something as unsafe for advertisement isn't "censorship." The slippery slope arguments being employed by certain people in defense of "free speech" are starting to devolve into a swamp. I put free speech in quotes there because I have little doubt, judging from the site's content and my impression of the author's views, they would have no issue at all with censorship of "leftists" and their speech.

CommieBobDole 8y ago
One the one hand, as someone more or less on the left, I am a little concerned with the political orthodoxy I see on the left, where there's a package of "correct" ideas of varying quality, and disagreeing with or having varying levels of enthusiasm about any of them is seen as almost worse than rejecting them all entirely. On the other hand, nearly everyone I see these days who talks about being really passionate about free speech and preventing groupthink seems to be an actual goddamned neo-Nazi whose idea of free speech is the right to scream racial slurs at top volume into the faces of "libtard cucks" until they're driven out of public spaces and they can resurrect the Third Reich without interference.
- existencebox 8y ago
  I realize your statement may be slightly hyperbolic, but I want to reassure you there are many moderate/centrally leaning individuals passionate about free speech and the power of questioning any status quo as a tool to seek truth. (obviously not as many as I might desire, but...) This _cannot_ be an issue that only becomes provenance of the worst kinds, because then it becomes easy to dismiss. One need only be a student of history to see the importance of the above for _breaking_ oppression and tyranny. (Sorry, not to distract from the OP and the primary discussion, I just felt strongly enough about the above statement to wave a "I promise we're out here" flag.)
- krapp 8y ago
  The problem is, racial realism and the alt-right are driving a resurgence in anti-Semitic and neo-nazi ideology, and the anti-globalist and anti-progressive movements around the world do feed into that, despite that not being their real genesis or purpose. Trump is (probably) not a white supremacist or neo-nazi but his election caused white supremacists and neo-nazis to come out of the woodwork and the left should not be the only ones concerned about that. Unfortunately, the left seems to have succumbed to the same sort of race-baiting, extremist paranoia that caused the right to meltdown over two Obama terms and they don't even see it. We can't come together over this issue because the right has embraced racism in the name of defending free speech causing the left to consider "free speech" to be a euphemism for supporting racist ideology.