8 ms·

Despite recieving enormous amounts of backlash and criticism from the tech comunity every release Canonical is the one company making Linux desktops available f

Despite recieving enormous amounts of backlash and criticism from the tech comunity every release Canonical is the one company making Linux desktops available for less technical people and I applaud them for doing so! Rocking the latest LTS here, and Ubuntu server on my homeserver. Wish them all the luck!

hyperbovine 8y ago
Honestly though, how many non- technical people do you know who run any form of Linux? Steve Jobs came along and gobbled up that market 15 years ago.
- another-cuppa 8y ago
  The parents and girlfriends of technical people (like mine).
  - kyrofa 8y ago
    Yep. Siblings, wife, and in-laws here.
- nanna 8y ago
  Not sure what the definition of "non-technical" is but I'm finding that among friends who've never heard, say, of emacs, they're increasingly getting tired of how corporate macOS feels, and they feel cheated into having to buy new hardware when apple has dropped support for theirs. I think the question of linux adoption is more just about spreading the word and supporting people to migrate, rather than advocacy of the need.
  - tomschlick 8y ago
    > and they feel cheated into having to buy new hardware when apple has dropped support for theirs When has Apple dropped the ball on support there? mac OS Mojave supports machines made in 2012...
    - rwmj 8y ago
      Wow, a whole 6 years?
      - tomschlick 8y ago
        Thats officially supported. I have personally run stuff a year or two older than official support multiple times with 0 issues. And 6 years is typically the lifecycle of any laptop. By that point most people start looking for a new one.
        teekert 8y ago
        My 2011 mbp is doing very well with a new battery, ssd and some extra RAM. I will still receive security updates for years if I'm correct but no more mayor updates indeed.
        hyperbovine 8y ago
        Man I love my 2012 rMBP. I recently left it on a flight and was devastated. Got it back, luckily. Greatest laptop ever made. I'm taking that thing to the grave...
- matteuan 8y ago
  my father (61 yo) uses xubuntu daily. I installed it for him years ago instead of Windows 7 and he loves it. He doesn't need to pay for an antivirus anymore and from his prospective it's much faster.
- dunpeal 8y ago
  I converted several of my non-technical friends to Ubuntu, including various other people I know. Many of them are running Ubuntu on a laptop that would cover half the cost of a macbook. Not everyone can afford Jobs' prices. Even if Apples were cheap, I consider Ubuntu a much better choice for an aspiring hacker / programmer.
  - jki275 8y ago
    What does a Linux machine do better than a Mac, if price were not a factor?
    - barrow-rider 8y ago
      Support machines older than 6 years. Got a ThinkPad from 2008 that's still kicking, rocking the latest Fedora release.
      - jki275 8y ago
        That's not really a feature, if cost isn't an issue you can run OSX on a new Mac. I get it if you're trying to avoid the cost of an operating system, but that wasn't what you said or what I asked..
    - dunpeal 8y ago
      Your typical Linux stack is far more configurable and customizable than the Mac stack. You typically have far more configuration levers, as well as deeper customization access. The stack is built entirely from open, accessible source, so you can ultimately customize every single part of it to your exact liking. For example, KDE has an order of magnitude more levers than the OS X DE.
      - jki275 8y ago
        You realize OSX is BSD, right? Just because they didn't build you a configuration button for everything doesn't mean it's not configurable.
- severino 8y ago
  My dad! :-P For non-technical people, I think there's not much difference between using a computer with Ubuntu, Mac or Windows, for regular tasks like browsing the internet, online shopping, sending email, doing stuff in spreadsheets, sharing photographs, etc. Software's mostly the same, in fact. And with this trend to make everything browser based, even more. Of course things can go wrong, but it doesn't really matter which OS they're using. For example, should this last week botched Windows 10-HP upgrade happened to my father, there's nothing he could have done on his own to restore his computer.
  - jki275 8y ago
    That's true only so far as using MS Office is not needed... Most people's computing needs would be adequately served by an iPad -- but those who aren't are typically doing more with their computers than can be met by any OS.
    - severino 8y ago
      Right. While Office has still some unpaired features, it's also true that not everybody using Office needs Office, specially the home users who need only daily finance, writting letters, etc.
      - jki275 8y ago
        That's true -- and most of those customers could just as easily use an ipad (or equivalent, it doesn't really matter at that point and I think they all run some subset of Office applications). The age of the personal computer is almost over, unfortunately. Those of us who still use them do expect more out of them though.
      - appleiigs 8y ago
        The non-technical people in my life did not realize you don’t need Office to open Office documents. This important when they interact with accountants, lawyers and such. Once I show them Libre, they still want Office because Libre looks like it’s from Excel 2003 era and loses credibility in their eyes. Then I show them Google Docs and Sheets and it looks nice. Literally all they need is something that looks modern. But in fact Google apps have actually been quite slick. Perfect amount of functionality at the moment. Google seems to follow keyboard behaviour and shortcuts for easy transition (especially Excel). Hope Google doesn’t bloat their apps over time.
- cweagans 8y ago
  Literally anyone with an Android or Chrome OS device. Granted, they didn't download and install it themselves, but I don't think that invalidates the point.
- tom4000 8y ago
  My best friend. She saw me being happy to use Linux and that I do everything on it she did on Windows before. Of course it still needs an opened mindset to use Linux but its disadvantages in some use cases. She is using OpenSuse.
sritrisna 8y ago
Using Ubuntu in our development and production environment. It's rock solid. However might switch to Kubuntu as it appears to have better HiDPI support through plasma compared to gnome.
- teekert 8y ago
  You should also consider KDE Neon, an 18.04 base but KDE/Plasma directly from the devs. If you use Snaps for your useland tools you have very stable base and a super up-to-date userland. I'm very happy with it.
  - Already__Taken 8y ago
    Isn't Neon the bleeding edge release for plasma though? Or would you just call it 1st party supported
    - teekert 8y ago
      It's what the plasma devs (supposedly) run. It feels very stable. Plasma/KDE/QT are of course pretty mature and stable.
    - reitanqild 8y ago
      They have two editions: User edition and Developer Edition Git-Unstable64
  - grawprog 8y ago
    Just wanted to add my support for KDE neon. I used kubuntu back in 16.04 and switched to neon instead.of the next LTS kubuntu and I haven't regretted it. Plasma feels a lot more stable and up to date than it did with kubuntu and I haven't had any problems since switching.
tapoxi 8y ago
I don't see how Ubuntu is any less complicated than say, Fedora. I also really don't like their use of CLAs and their attempt to use their desktop presence to push Ubuntu-specific technologies like Mir, Unity, and Snap.
- another-cuppa 8y ago
  Fedora is a community distro.
- merb 8y ago
  to be fair, snap is the only technology that canonical got right from the start and is actually really good, even on other distributions.
- apexalpha 8y ago
  >I don't see how Ubuntu is any less complicated than say, Fedora. You mean the distro that coudn't even play an mp3 out of the box? Jeez, I don't know how non-tech people could see this as more complicated...
  - tapoxi 8y ago
    But now it can play MP3s out of the box. Not that I'd ever suggest Linux to someone who doesn't know what a codec is anyway. Fresh installs with friends/family are always fine, but its after an major version upgrade (or many years of version upgrades) that the system will eventually get into a state where Dad can't debug it. I stopped this recommendation after a family friend (who bought a laptop with Ubuntu) had a system update that overwrote xorg.conf, leaving them completely without a GUI. ChromeOS is an ideal Linux for users like this. Keep updates atomic and the underlying system completely hidden.
    - SSLy 8y ago
      How long ago that `xorg.conf` update was?
    - apexalpha 8y ago
bpye 8y ago
I had been running Ubuntu but I recently switched to Fedora as a desktop OS. I've found it a much more pleasant experience. Ubuntu is by no means bad but their changes from upstream seem to cause friction.
- barrow-rider 8y ago
  Been using Fedora as a daily driver since '09. Generally liked it more, and I do CentOS/Red Hat all day at work so I'm a little more familiar with the internals. Steam and Proton work pretty well on it, too.
apatters 8y ago
From the perspective of a desktop user they are phoning it in. Gnome is upgraded to the latest release and they made some theme tweaks. The desktop feature list is humiliatingly short. It's not entirely Canonical's fault. No one ever figured out how to make money off of desktop, consumer Linux. Mark was at least honest about it, they tried, it didn't work, server is a better way to make money, they aren't investing anymore. But there is no one out there now who is investing in desktop Linux in order to win. Meanwhile Apple and Microsoft still invest in the desktop, but it seems like nowadays they invest to lose as neither of their desktop operating systems are really getting better. We live in interesting times.
- anonlastname 8y ago
  I get the feeling that Ubuntu is basically a finished product. What major changes would you have expected to see if Canonical had more money? The only thing I can think of is to replace the god awful default text editor. I noticed they changed it a while ago (from when it was called Gedit) but it's still garbage. Not that this really matters when we have Emacs... As a user, I'm happy with ubuntu. Stability is important to me.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

hyperbovine 8y ago

Honestly though, how many non- technical people do you know who run any form of Linux? Steve Jobs came along and gobbled up that market 15 years ago.

another-cuppa 8y ago
The parents and girlfriends of technical people (like mine).
- kyrofa 8y ago
  Yep. Siblings, wife, and in-laws here.
nanna 8y ago
Not sure what the definition of "non-technical" is but I'm finding that among friends who've never heard, say, of emacs, they're increasingly getting tired of how corporate macOS feels, and they feel cheated into having to buy new hardware when apple has dropped support for theirs. I think the question of linux adoption is more just about spreading the word and supporting people to migrate, rather than advocacy of the need.
- tomschlick 8y ago
  > and they feel cheated into having to buy new hardware when apple has dropped support for theirs When has Apple dropped the ball on support there? mac OS Mojave supports machines made in 2012...
  - rwmj 8y ago
    Wow, a whole 6 years?
    - tomschlick 8y ago
      Thats officially supported. I have personally run stuff a year or two older than official support multiple times with 0 issues. And 6 years is typically the lifecycle of any laptop. By that point most people start looking for a new one.
      - teekert 8y ago
        My 2011 mbp is doing very well with a new battery, ssd and some extra RAM. I will still receive security updates for years if I'm correct but no more mayor updates indeed.
        hyperbovine 8y ago
        Man I love my 2012 rMBP. I recently left it on a flight and was devastated. Got it back, luckily. Greatest laptop ever made. I'm taking that thing to the grave...
matteuan 8y ago
my father (61 yo) uses xubuntu daily. I installed it for him years ago instead of Windows 7 and he loves it. He doesn't need to pay for an antivirus anymore and from his prospective it's much faster.
dunpeal 8y ago
I converted several of my non-technical friends to Ubuntu, including various other people I know. Many of them are running Ubuntu on a laptop that would cover half the cost of a macbook. Not everyone can afford Jobs' prices. Even if Apples were cheap, I consider Ubuntu a much better choice for an aspiring hacker / programmer.
- jki275 8y ago
  What does a Linux machine do better than a Mac, if price were not a factor?
  - barrow-rider 8y ago
    Support machines older than 6 years. Got a ThinkPad from 2008 that's still kicking, rocking the latest Fedora release.
    - jki275 8y ago
      That's not really a feature, if cost isn't an issue you can run OSX on a new Mac. I get it if you're trying to avoid the cost of an operating system, but that wasn't what you said or what I asked..
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    Your typical Linux stack is far more configurable and customizable than the Mac stack. You typically have far more configuration levers, as well as deeper customization access. The stack is built entirely from open, accessible source, so you can ultimately customize every single part of it to your exact liking. For example, KDE has an order of magnitude more levers than the OS X DE.
    - jki275 8y ago
      You realize OSX is BSD, right? Just because they didn't build you a configuration button for everything doesn't mean it's not configurable.
severino 8y ago
My dad! :-P For non-technical people, I think there's not much difference between using a computer with Ubuntu, Mac or Windows, for regular tasks like browsing the internet, online shopping, sending email, doing stuff in spreadsheets, sharing photographs, etc. Software's mostly the same, in fact. And with this trend to make everything browser based, even more. Of course things can go wrong, but it doesn't really matter which OS they're using. For example, should this last week botched Windows 10-HP upgrade happened to my father, there's nothing he could have done on his own to restore his computer.
- jki275 8y ago
  That's true only so far as using MS Office is not needed... Most people's computing needs would be adequately served by an iPad -- but those who aren't are typically doing more with their computers than can be met by any OS.
  - severino 8y ago
    Right. While Office has still some unpaired features, it's also true that not everybody using Office needs Office, specially the home users who need only daily finance, writting letters, etc.
    - jki275 8y ago
      That's true -- and most of those customers could just as easily use an ipad (or equivalent, it doesn't really matter at that point and I think they all run some subset of Office applications). The age of the personal computer is almost over, unfortunately. Those of us who still use them do expect more out of them though.
    - appleiigs 8y ago
      The non-technical people in my life did not realize you don’t need Office to open Office documents. This important when they interact with accountants, lawyers and such. Once I show them Libre, they still want Office because Libre looks like it’s from Excel 2003 era and loses credibility in their eyes. Then I show them Google Docs and Sheets and it looks nice. Literally all they need is something that looks modern. But in fact Google apps have actually been quite slick. Perfect amount of functionality at the moment. Google seems to follow keyboard behaviour and shortcuts for easy transition (especially Excel). Hope Google doesn’t bloat their apps over time.
cweagans 8y ago
Literally anyone with an Android or Chrome OS device. Granted, they didn't download and install it themselves, but I don't think that invalidates the point.
tom4000 8y ago
My best friend. She saw me being happy to use Linux and that I do everything on it she did on Windows before. Of course it still needs an opened mindset to use Linux but its disadvantages in some use cases. She is using OpenSuse.

sritrisna 8y ago

Using Ubuntu in our development and production environment. It's rock solid. However might switch to Kubuntu as it appears to have better HiDPI support through plasma compared to gnome.

teekert 8y ago
You should also consider KDE Neon, an 18.04 base but KDE/Plasma directly from the devs. If you use Snaps for your useland tools you have very stable base and a super up-to-date userland. I'm very happy with it.
- Already__Taken 8y ago
  Isn't Neon the bleeding edge release for plasma though? Or would you just call it 1st party supported
  - teekert 8y ago
    It's what the plasma devs (supposedly) run. It feels very stable. Plasma/KDE/QT are of course pretty mature and stable.
  - reitanqild 8y ago
    They have two editions: User edition and Developer Edition Git-Unstable64
- grawprog 8y ago
  Just wanted to add my support for KDE neon. I used kubuntu back in 16.04 and switched to neon instead.of the next LTS kubuntu and I haven't regretted it. Plasma feels a lot more stable and up to date than it did with kubuntu and I haven't had any problems since switching.

tapoxi 8y ago

I don't see how Ubuntu is any less complicated than say, Fedora. I also really don't like their use of CLAs and their attempt to use their desktop presence to push Ubuntu-specific technologies like Mir, Unity, and Snap.

another-cuppa 8y ago
Fedora is a community distro.
merb 8y ago
to be fair, snap is the only technology that canonical got right from the start and is actually really good, even on other distributions.
apexalpha 8y ago
>I don't see how Ubuntu is any less complicated than say, Fedora. You mean the distro that coudn't even play an mp3 out of the box? Jeez, I don't know how non-tech people could see this as more complicated...
- tapoxi 8y ago
  But now it can play MP3s out of the box. Not that I'd ever suggest Linux to someone who doesn't know what a codec is anyway. Fresh installs with friends/family are always fine, but its after an major version upgrade (or many years of version upgrades) that the system will eventually get into a state where Dad can't debug it. I stopped this recommendation after a family friend (who bought a laptop with Ubuntu) had a system update that overwrote xorg.conf, leaving them completely without a GUI. ChromeOS is an ideal Linux for users like this. Keep updates atomic and the underlying system completely hidden.
  - SSLy 8y ago
    How long ago that `xorg.conf` update was?
  - apexalpha 8y ago

bpye 8y ago

I had been running Ubuntu but I recently switched to Fedora as a desktop OS. I've found it a much more pleasant experience. Ubuntu is by no means bad but their changes from upstream seem to cause friction.

barrow-rider 8y ago
Been using Fedora as a daily driver since '09. Generally liked it more, and I do CentOS/Red Hat all day at work so I'm a little more familiar with the internals. Steam and Proton work pretty well on it, too.

apatters 8y ago

From the perspective of a desktop user they are phoning it in. Gnome is upgraded to the latest release and they made some theme tweaks. The desktop feature list is humiliatingly short. It's not entirely Canonical's fault. No one ever figured out how to make money off of desktop, consumer Linux. Mark was at least honest about it, they tried, it didn't work, server is a better way to make money, they aren't investing anymore. But there is no one out there now who is investing in desktop Linux in order to win. Meanwhile Apple and Microsoft still invest in the desktop, but it seems like nowadays they invest to lose as neither of their desktop operating systems are really getting better. We live in interesting times.

anonlastname 8y ago
I get the feeling that Ubuntu is basically a finished product. What major changes would you have expected to see if Canonical had more money? The only thing I can think of is to replace the god awful default text editor. I noticed they changed it a while ago (from when it was called Gedit) but it's still garbage. Not that this really matters when we have Emacs... As a user, I'm happy with ubuntu. Stability is important to me.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]