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> Only almost formal, exceedingly polite and necessary conversations are part of the social norm This does not describe Finland at all. If you go to a conveni

> Only almost formal, exceedingly polite and necessary conversations are part of the social norm This does not describe Finland at all. If you go to a convenience store in Japan and buy a pack of gum, the clerk will go through an elaborate script of welcoming you to the store, reciting how much your purchase costs, how much cash they receive from you, how much change they give you in return, and thanking you for your custom. In Finland, more likely than not you can complete exactly the same transaction without either party saying a word (except maybe the clerk telling you the total).

varjag 8y ago
In Norway cashiers have to recite much of that (and ask if you want a receipt) due to regulations. So I wonder how much of 'custom' is that really in Japan too.
- vidarh 8y ago
  My French-teacher in Norway told me this story as a way of relating how terse Norwegians tended to be relative to the French. She insisted it was about someone she knew, but I have no idea if it's true: A Norwegian husband took his French wife to live in Norway. She was at home while he went to work, and after a few months he invited another couple home to dinner. Most of the conversation happened in French or English as she had not yet picked up much Norwegian, but when leaving, she wanted to try. After they left, the husband asked her "why did you say 'pose' when they were leaving?" She asked if she'd gotten it wrong - it was what the cashiers always said as she was leaving the shop, so she'd assumed it was "goodbye". (for the non-Norwegians: 'pose' means bag, as in a shopping bag; they were asking if she wanted one) The idea that a one word utterance as she was leaving could be an insignificant question rather than wishing her good bye had not crossed her mind.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    It was days rather than months, but I had similar confusion in Denmark over cashiers asking if I'd like the receipt as I was leaving. Of course, with the additional difficulty of Danish pronunciation, I wasn't able to search for the words, and didn't try and repeat them. (pose → purse, if you like to learn with cognates.)
  - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
    Thank you for this - I got quite a giggle. I'm living in Norway and am from the states, and I sometimes do weird stuff like that. Lots of laughs from stuff like that, and I'm quite happy the spouse is Norwegian to laugh and explain that stuff.
lasagnaphil 8y ago
I think the Japanese clerk’s elaborate script is just an educated formality rather than a sincere conversation...
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > just an educated formality rather than a sincere conversation So small talk, then.
  - lasagnaphil 8y ago
    I think it is a little different than smalltalk. When people smalltalk, no matter how shallow the conversation is, there is still an intention to “get to know” with each other. But in the cashier example, the cashier does not have any goal to forge a relationship with the customer, but will repeat the same thing over and over because that’s what they’re told to do in the manuals.
    - throwaway487548 8y ago
      > an intention to “get to know” Not necessarily. It seems like major motivators (not necessarily consciously realized) are to show off and to talk about oneself. Cosplay of intelligence is another big motivator - how could one possibly look like he have nothing to say?!
    - darkerside 8y ago
      Because it's the polite etiquette, not because they are programmed like robots.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    It's not even small talk because it's like an automated message.
  - SilasX 8y ago
    No. Small talk is, by definition, incidental to the functional, "business" parts of the transaction. It excludes things like: "Your total is $X". "Out of the $Y you gave me, your change is ..." -- i.e., the things the GP was describing in Japan. Edit: "Welcome to the store [some mini sales pitch]" might count as small talk, but is not what most people have in mind.
ahje 8y ago
> In Finland, more likely than not you can complete exactly the same transaction without either party saying a word. I don't think I've ever paid for a purchase without being told what the total is or being asked if I would like a receit. Like ever.
- jpatokal 8y ago
  True, they will usually tell you the total cost. Amended.
- stevekemp 8y ago
  Yeah the receipt thing is a little surprising, as a foreigner. Literally everybody reads out the total, and asks if you want one. Most of the time I say no, but sometimes I want one. I started to feel a bit more relaxed when I could go to the corner-shop and buy food without having to understand much Finnish, and the constant repetition helped me learn my numbers. (Now and again a staff-member will confuse me by asking "Would you like anything else?" or "Is that all?" which throws me off. The only other questions I expect to be asked are "Would you like a bag?" or "Do you have a store-card?".)
swebs 8y ago
Cashiers almost always say hi to you in Finland. Then they list the price, then usually ask if you want a receipt, then say thanks. It's pretty rare for them to deviate from the script.

varjag 8y ago

In Norway cashiers have to recite much of that (and ask if you want a receipt) due to regulations. So I wonder how much of 'custom' is that really in Japan too.

vidarh 8y ago
My French-teacher in Norway told me this story as a way of relating how terse Norwegians tended to be relative to the French. She insisted it was about someone she knew, but I have no idea if it's true: A Norwegian husband took his French wife to live in Norway. She was at home while he went to work, and after a few months he invited another couple home to dinner. Most of the conversation happened in French or English as she had not yet picked up much Norwegian, but when leaving, she wanted to try. After they left, the husband asked her "why did you say 'pose' when they were leaving?" She asked if she'd gotten it wrong - it was what the cashiers always said as she was leaving the shop, so she'd assumed it was "goodbye". (for the non-Norwegians: 'pose' means bag, as in a shopping bag; they were asking if she wanted one) The idea that a one word utterance as she was leaving could be an insignificant question rather than wishing her good bye had not crossed her mind.
- Symbiote 8y ago
  It was days rather than months, but I had similar confusion in Denmark over cashiers asking if I'd like the receipt as I was leaving. Of course, with the additional difficulty of Danish pronunciation, I wasn't able to search for the words, and didn't try and repeat them. (pose → purse, if you like to learn with cognates.)
- Broken_Hippo 8y ago
  Thank you for this - I got quite a giggle. I'm living in Norway and am from the states, and I sometimes do weird stuff like that. Lots of laughs from stuff like that, and I'm quite happy the spouse is Norwegian to laugh and explain that stuff.

lasagnaphil 8y ago

I think the Japanese clerk’s elaborate script is just an educated formality rather than a sincere conversation...

chrisseaton 8y ago
> just an educated formality rather than a sincere conversation So small talk, then.
- lasagnaphil 8y ago
  I think it is a little different than smalltalk. When people smalltalk, no matter how shallow the conversation is, there is still an intention to “get to know” with each other. But in the cashier example, the cashier does not have any goal to forge a relationship with the customer, but will repeat the same thing over and over because that’s what they’re told to do in the manuals.
  - throwaway487548 8y ago
    > an intention to “get to know” Not necessarily. It seems like major motivators (not necessarily consciously realized) are to show off and to talk about oneself. Cosplay of intelligence is another big motivator - how could one possibly look like he have nothing to say?!
  - darkerside 8y ago
    Because it's the polite etiquette, not because they are programmed like robots.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  It's not even small talk because it's like an automated message.
- SilasX 8y ago
  No. Small talk is, by definition, incidental to the functional, "business" parts of the transaction. It excludes things like: "Your total is $X". "Out of the $Y you gave me, your change is ..." -- i.e., the things the GP was describing in Japan. Edit: "Welcome to the store [some mini sales pitch]" might count as small talk, but is not what most people have in mind.

ahje 8y ago

> In Finland, more likely than not you can complete exactly the same transaction without either party saying a word. I don't think I've ever paid for a purchase without being told what the total is or being asked if I would like a receit. Like ever.

jpatokal 8y ago
True, they will usually tell you the total cost. Amended.
stevekemp 8y ago
Yeah the receipt thing is a little surprising, as a foreigner. Literally everybody reads out the total, and asks if you want one. Most of the time I say no, but sometimes I want one. I started to feel a bit more relaxed when I could go to the corner-shop and buy food without having to understand much Finnish, and the constant repetition helped me learn my numbers. (Now and again a staff-member will confuse me by asking "Would you like anything else?" or "Is that all?" which throws me off. The only other questions I expect to be asked are "Would you like a bag?" or "Do you have a store-card?".)

swebs 8y ago

Cashiers almost always say hi to you in Finland. Then they list the price, then usually ask if you want a receipt, then say thanks. It's pretty rare for them to deviate from the script.