4 ms·

Maybe it's because when you set fractional scaling you lose pixel perfect design (icons, images, and so). https://icons8.com/articles/make-pixel-perfect-icons/

by sunseb 8y ago

Maybe it's because when you set fractional scaling you lose pixel perfect design (icons, images, and so). https://icons8.com/articles/make-pixel-perfect-icons/ https://icons8.com/articles/make-pixel-perfect-icons/

quantummkv 8y ago
It dosen't happen that way on windows. I had scaling set to 1.25 and got no issues anywhere. The issue with linux is that X wasn't designed for this and Wayland is still unstable/unusable (thanks nvidia)
- sunseb 8y ago
  I think it's an issue with SVG icons (this format doesn't support fractional scaling, but TTF fonts do).
  - baybal2 8y ago
    >I think it's an issue with SVG icons How so??? SVG is a vector format
  - quantummkv 8y ago
    The whole point of svg and (vector graphics) is that you can scale them to whatever you want.
    - sunseb 8y ago
      If you do fractional scaling on a svg image, pixels will not align to the pixel grid and the image will look blury. You won't notice that on big svg images, but tiny ui icons will definitely look blurry. There was even a (never implemented) proposal to allow svg files to handle this problem. https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/SVG_hinting https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/SVG_hintin... That's why svg icons are often designed using a 24x24 pixel grid, so you can scale them at 48X48 (x2), 72x72 (x3), 96x96 (x4) and they remain pixel perfect and crisp at those sizes.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - int_19h 8y ago
        It's still better than scaling bitmaps, so it's weird to single out SVG as the culprit. It makes things better in general, not worse.
- vetinari 8y ago
  Wayland is actually pretty stable. Nvidia has problem with OpenGL in Xwayland (i.e. 3d accel for x11 apps), otherwise, it should work. There are warts though, when using Wayland. When using scaling (doesn't have to be fractional, either), X11 apps are being upscaled, not downscaled, resulting in blurriness. Unfortunately, neither Firefox nor Chrome does support Wayland natively, and who wants to use their most used app on their computer in blurry mode?
  - nanna 8y ago
    Must admit I don't understand what Wayland is, or X server for that matter. Would someone mind explaining it, for someone a bit dull of mind as myself?
    - Shywim 8y ago
      In short: X.org is a decade old display server that became the standard to display graphical window on the majority of Linux distribution. GNOME, KDE, XFCE and others are/were client to this display server. Wayland is a new protocol where the window manager (ie GNOME, KDE,...) is responsible of directly managing the display. Each window manager must reimplement this protocol (or use a library already doing this work) which enable them to have more control over the windows. Applications must also directly support Wayland like they did for X.org before (which was the default commonly used, so no problem) or the user just have XWayland installed on their computer to show X.org windows inside a Wayland WM but then the application may not display correctly (blur, artifcats,...)
      - ch_123 8y ago
        It is perhaps worth noting that while X.org is about a decade old, it is an implementation of the X Window System protocol which dates back to the mid 80s. Suffice to say, quite a lot has changed in computer graphics/interfaces since that time, and most modern *nix operating systems end up circumventing quite a lot of X to offer modern features. Thus X brings quite a lot of legacy debt to the table which can't be easily removed.
- int_19h 8y ago
  > It dosen't happen that way on windows. I had scaling set to 1.25 and got no issues anywhere. You do get scaled (and hence somewhat blurry) icons if you do 1.25x on Windows as well. 1.5x usually works better, because icons scaled by that much tend to hit the next size tier that is often available prescaled to look good (16x16 -> 24x24, 32x24 -> 48x48).
drb91 8y ago
Who on earth would prefer that to proper scaling?
- dmytrish 8y ago
  I use KDE with x1.3 scaling and it mostly works, but e.g. VirtualBox is unusable with scaling, pdf fonts in Okular look torn, some pixel maps scale poorly giving artefacts. Still, I don't have better options: 13" FullHD doesn't play well with 2x scaling (and even 1.5x would usable, but too big for my taste).
- jcelerier 8y ago
  I realllyyyyyyyyyy hate blurry pixmaps
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - drb91 8y ago
    Ahh Linux, you’ll catch up in a few decades maybe.
oblio 8y ago
I find this as a failing, at least partially, of desktop monitors. Once the DPS is high enough you kind of stop caring about individual pixels. However most laptops and desktops out in the wild have screens which are 1080p at best. Nota bene: I'm talking globally, developed countries are doing better int his regard.
rleigh 8y ago
It's 2018. We have had SVG icons for years on Linux, which scale beautifully. Bitmap icons shouldn't be used any longer.
- cuu508 8y ago
  On desktops/laptops, 1366x768 is still by far the most common resolution. SVG or not, but on a 13" - 15" 1366x768 screens icons need to be pixel-perfect or they will look crap.
  - Shoue 8y ago
    If you have a 1366x768 screen why would you need DPI scaling? You shouldn't be affected by this issue at all if your resolution is below a certain threshold.

by sunseb 8y ago

quantummkv 8y ago

It dosen't happen that way on windows. I had scaling set to 1.25 and got no issues anywhere. The issue with linux is that X wasn't designed for this and Wayland is still unstable/unusable (thanks nvidia)

sunseb 8y ago
I think it's an issue with SVG icons (this format doesn't support fractional scaling, but TTF fonts do).
- baybal2 8y ago
  >I think it's an issue with SVG icons How so??? SVG is a vector format
- quantummkv 8y ago
  The whole point of svg and (vector graphics) is that you can scale them to whatever you want.
  - sunseb 8y ago
    If you do fractional scaling on a svg image, pixels will not align to the pixel grid and the image will look blury. You won't notice that on big svg images, but tiny ui icons will definitely look blurry. There was even a (never implemented) proposal to allow svg files to handle this problem. https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/SVG_hinting https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/SVG_hintin... That's why svg icons are often designed using a 24x24 pixel grid, so you can scale them at 48X48 (x2), 72x72 (x3), 96x96 (x4) and they remain pixel perfect and crisp at those sizes.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - int_19h 8y ago
      It's still better than scaling bitmaps, so it's weird to single out SVG as the culprit. It makes things better in general, not worse.
vetinari 8y ago
Wayland is actually pretty stable. Nvidia has problem with OpenGL in Xwayland (i.e. 3d accel for x11 apps), otherwise, it should work. There are warts though, when using Wayland. When using scaling (doesn't have to be fractional, either), X11 apps are being upscaled, not downscaled, resulting in blurriness. Unfortunately, neither Firefox nor Chrome does support Wayland natively, and who wants to use their most used app on their computer in blurry mode?
- nanna 8y ago
  Must admit I don't understand what Wayland is, or X server for that matter. Would someone mind explaining it, for someone a bit dull of mind as myself?
  - Shywim 8y ago
    In short: X.org is a decade old display server that became the standard to display graphical window on the majority of Linux distribution. GNOME, KDE, XFCE and others are/were client to this display server. Wayland is a new protocol where the window manager (ie GNOME, KDE,...) is responsible of directly managing the display. Each window manager must reimplement this protocol (or use a library already doing this work) which enable them to have more control over the windows. Applications must also directly support Wayland like they did for X.org before (which was the default commonly used, so no problem) or the user just have XWayland installed on their computer to show X.org windows inside a Wayland WM but then the application may not display correctly (blur, artifcats,...)
    - ch_123 8y ago
      It is perhaps worth noting that while X.org is about a decade old, it is an implementation of the X Window System protocol which dates back to the mid 80s. Suffice to say, quite a lot has changed in computer graphics/interfaces since that time, and most modern *nix operating systems end up circumventing quite a lot of X to offer modern features. Thus X brings quite a lot of legacy debt to the table which can't be easily removed.
int_19h 8y ago
> It dosen't happen that way on windows. I had scaling set to 1.25 and got no issues anywhere. You do get scaled (and hence somewhat blurry) icons if you do 1.25x on Windows as well. 1.5x usually works better, because icons scaled by that much tend to hit the next size tier that is often available prescaled to look good (16x16 -> 24x24, 32x24 -> 48x48).

drb91 8y ago

Who on earth would prefer that to proper scaling?

dmytrish 8y ago
I use KDE with x1.3 scaling and it mostly works, but e.g. VirtualBox is unusable with scaling, pdf fonts in Okular look torn, some pixel maps scale poorly giving artefacts. Still, I don't have better options: 13" FullHD doesn't play well with 2x scaling (and even 1.5x would usable, but too big for my taste).
jcelerier 8y ago
I realllyyyyyyyyyy hate blurry pixmaps
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- drb91 8y ago
  Ahh Linux, you’ll catch up in a few decades maybe.

oblio 8y ago

I find this as a failing, at least partially, of desktop monitors. Once the DPS is high enough you kind of stop caring about individual pixels. However most laptops and desktops out in the wild have screens which are 1080p at best. Nota bene: I'm talking globally, developed countries are doing better int his regard.

rleigh 8y ago

It's 2018. We have had SVG icons for years on Linux, which scale beautifully. Bitmap icons shouldn't be used any longer.

cuu508 8y ago
On desktops/laptops, 1366x768 is still by far the most common resolution. SVG or not, but on a 13" - 15" 1366x768 screens icons need to be pixel-perfect or they will look crap.
- Shoue 8y ago
  If you have a 1366x768 screen why would you need DPI scaling? You shouldn't be affected by this issue at all if your resolution is below a certain threshold.