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Thing is, it does bargain, and trusts third-party privacy policy, but I, for example, do not trust Cloudflare. "We’ve chosen Cloudflare because they agreed to

Thing is, it does bargain, and trusts third-party privacy policy, but I, for example, do not trust Cloudflare. "We’ve chosen Cloudflare because they agreed to a very strong privacy agreement" [0]. Like, legally agreed? With regular audits and full access for Mozilla people? Where does that leave me, if it gets baked into my browser? [0] https://blog.nightly.mozilla.org/2018/06/01/improving-dns-privacy-in-firefox/ https://blog.nightly.mozilla.org/2018/06/01/improving-dns-pr...

jgrahamc 8y ago
The quote you make there from your reference [0] has a link to the legal agreement with Cloudflare. It's here: https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/commitment-to-privacy/privacy-policy/firefox/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/commitment-to-priv... So you can read the legal agreement. Of course, if you still don't want to use Cloudflare for DoH you can just configure your favourite resolver in Firefox itself. The blog you refer to as [0] contains detailed instructions on how to do that. So, where are you left? Right where you are today: you control the DNS resolver on your machine today. With Firefox Nightly you also control the DoH resolver (and can disable it entirely).
- auslander 8y ago
  My concern is whether this integration with CF will make its way into default FF install.
  - jopsen 8y ago
    But if you do DNS resolution yourself you'll loose privacy. You'll probably always be able to run your own. If you so desire.
    - auslander 8y ago
      I use DNS over TLS via multiple resolvers, so not my case. Privacy is a fragile thing. Is it better putting all my lookups in one basket (CF)? For hiding from ISP, nothing beats VPN, and in this case no need for ESNI. My point is its not up to Mozilla to turn my data to third party. And, frankly, if choosing between ISP and CF (or Google), leaks to ISP impact your privacy much less. ISP have no global data to ML your history, no analytics cookies, no clear text traffic access.
jopsen 8y ago
You seem to complain, but I hear of no alternatives.. The world is moving towards more cloud computing, Mozilla can't stop the centralization of the internet. But if they can use collective bargaining to protect consumers that might do a lot of good.
- auslander 8y ago
  Installing unbound, which supports DoT and multiple resolvers on your home router, for example

jgrahamc 8y ago

The quote you make there from your reference [0] has a link to the legal agreement with Cloudflare. It's here: https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/commitment-to-privacy/privacy-policy/firefox/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/commitment-to-priv... So you can read the legal agreement. Of course, if you still don't want to use Cloudflare for DoH you can just configure your favourite resolver in Firefox itself. The blog you refer to as [0] contains detailed instructions on how to do that. So, where are you left? Right where you are today: you control the DNS resolver on your machine today. With Firefox Nightly you also control the DoH resolver (and can disable it entirely).

auslander 8y ago
My concern is whether this integration with CF will make its way into default FF install.
- jopsen 8y ago
  But if you do DNS resolution yourself you'll loose privacy. You'll probably always be able to run your own. If you so desire.
  - auslander 8y ago
    I use DNS over TLS via multiple resolvers, so not my case. Privacy is a fragile thing. Is it better putting all my lookups in one basket (CF)? For hiding from ISP, nothing beats VPN, and in this case no need for ESNI. My point is its not up to Mozilla to turn my data to third party. And, frankly, if choosing between ISP and CF (or Google), leaks to ISP impact your privacy much less. ISP have no global data to ML your history, no analytics cookies, no clear text traffic access.

jopsen 8y ago

You seem to complain, but I hear of no alternatives.. The world is moving towards more cloud computing, Mozilla can't stop the centralization of the internet. But if they can use collective bargaining to protect consumers that might do a lot of good.

auslander 8y ago
Installing unbound, which supports DoT and multiple resolvers on your home router, for example