4 ms·

Not everyone can afford electric cars.

incangold 8y ago
It doesn’t matter. Literally nobody can afford climate failure. Once you’ve got a realistic threat of civilisational collapse on one side of the equation, things look different. Not everyone being able to afford a car, or having to eat veggie burgers... These aren’t real problems in comparison. Quite apart from the fact that we shouldn’t all need cars in the first place. I live in Europe, with kids, and I’ve never felt the need to even get a license. Trains are far more convenient. Cars being a luxury means public transport will need to improve everywhere. Which is great for everyone, and for the economy.
- roenxi 8y ago
  > It doesn’t matter. Literally nobody can afford climate failure. That is a sweeping overgeneralisation and literally false. There are going to be large communities of people who will suffer more from giving up cars than from climate change. Maybe you don't have an poor people living in your part of the world, but wishing a peasant lifestyle on the poor because you don't want to engage with their problems is neither constructive nor pleasant. What people can afford does matter, and it is worth considering how much the poor are being asked to give up versus how much we expect their sacrifice to help.
  - incangold 8y ago
    It’s fair to point out that I was being hyperbolic. Depending on exactly where we fall in the range of bad to catastrophic possible futures ahead of us, it may be hard to find too many people who would be more affected by giving up cars than climate change. I am clearly not wishing a peasant lifestyle on the poor, that is a straw man. I am wishing working public transport on everyone. Your final paragraph I absolutely agree with. I over-egged my comment for effect. The general lack of alarm and urgency surrounding climate change is frustrating.
ndnxhs 8y ago
Anyone who can afford a car can afford a bike/ebike or a public transport ticket. Electric cars are not a solution to our problems.
- makomk 8y ago
  As it currently stands, being forced to rely on public transport takes years off people's lives - not in one clear-cut chunk, but in hours stolen here and there.
  - ndnxhs 8y ago
    That time spent on public transport can be used to get work done vs sitting in a car doing nothing else. Also having a decent public transport system is much much faster than sitting in traffic for hours. The american audience has probably never experienced a good public transport system so they assume its just slow by design.
    - steve_taylor 8y ago
      Trains always seem to lack the capacity for people to sit down during typical commuting hours. Even when you can get a seat, there’s no space to use your laptop because people occupy the space where your elbows need to be.
      - ndnxhs 8y ago
        So the train you use is bad that means trains in general are bad? The solution is to put more resources in to the public transport system.
  - maccard 8y ago
    I've definitely spent more time sitting in traffic (as a very infrequent driver) than I have waiting on public transport in my life. Try driving across london vs getting the tube.
    - 8y ago
calv 8y ago
Those people are likely the people who can't afford a new car too "A ban on sales of NEW petrol and diesel cars" is literally written in the article.
CalRobert 8y ago
Can you elaborate?

It doesn’t matter. Literally nobody can afford climate failure. Once you’ve got a realistic threat of civilisational collapse on one side of the equation, things look different. Not everyone being able to afford a car, or having to eat veggie burgers... These aren’t real problems in comparison. Quite apart from the fact that we shouldn’t all need cars in the first place. I live in Europe, with kids, and I’ve never felt the need to even get a license. Trains are far more convenient. Cars being a luxury means public transport will need to improve everywhere. Which is great for everyone, and for the economy.

roenxi 8y ago
> It doesn’t matter. Literally nobody can afford climate failure. That is a sweeping overgeneralisation and literally false. There are going to be large communities of people who will suffer more from giving up cars than from climate change. Maybe you don't have an poor people living in your part of the world, but wishing a peasant lifestyle on the poor because you don't want to engage with their problems is neither constructive nor pleasant. What people can afford does matter, and it is worth considering how much the poor are being asked to give up versus how much we expect their sacrifice to help.
- incangold 8y ago
  It’s fair to point out that I was being hyperbolic. Depending on exactly where we fall in the range of bad to catastrophic possible futures ahead of us, it may be hard to find too many people who would be more affected by giving up cars than climate change. I am clearly not wishing a peasant lifestyle on the poor, that is a straw man. I am wishing working public transport on everyone. Your final paragraph I absolutely agree with. I over-egged my comment for effect. The general lack of alarm and urgency surrounding climate change is frustrating.

ndnxhs 8y ago

Anyone who can afford a car can afford a bike/ebike or a public transport ticket. Electric cars are not a solution to our problems.

makomk 8y ago
As it currently stands, being forced to rely on public transport takes years off people's lives - not in one clear-cut chunk, but in hours stolen here and there.
- ndnxhs 8y ago
  That time spent on public transport can be used to get work done vs sitting in a car doing nothing else. Also having a decent public transport system is much much faster than sitting in traffic for hours. The american audience has probably never experienced a good public transport system so they assume its just slow by design.
  - steve_taylor 8y ago
    Trains always seem to lack the capacity for people to sit down during typical commuting hours. Even when you can get a seat, there’s no space to use your laptop because people occupy the space where your elbows need to be.
    - ndnxhs 8y ago
      So the train you use is bad that means trains in general are bad? The solution is to put more resources in to the public transport system.
- maccard 8y ago
  I've definitely spent more time sitting in traffic (as a very infrequent driver) than I have waiting on public transport in my life. Try driving across london vs getting the tube.
  - 8y ago

calv 8y ago

Those people are likely the people who can't afford a new car too "A ban on sales of NEW petrol and diesel cars" is literally written in the article.

CalRobert 8y ago

Can you elaborate?